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Home Schooling
Topic Started: Sunday, 12. August 2007, 14:19 (1,312 Views)
Lilo
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Derekap
Jan 1 2008, 04:10 AM
Obviously, Lilo, your children have had a very wide and varied experience which is very laudable.  However, do you think it is typical?  I am not wanting to be critical just asking out of curiousity.

Derek,

Obviously there are variations within the homeschool community, and I certainly know the odd family that does not provide what I consider a good education.

Fortunately, numerous families provide variations of what we did, so I can't claim to have been all that exceptional.

Overall, what I have seen has only confirmed my positive view of the homeschool phenomenon.

The root problem in a lot of bad catechesis is ultimately not ignorance, but pride. ~ Mark Shea

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Lilo
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Gerard
Jan 1 2008, 05:45 AM


I am supportive of homeschooling where necessary - and sometimes it is the best solution. One dowside that has not been mentioned is that the catholic school needs parents and children who are as committed as Lilo.


Thanks for the compliment, Gerry.

But frankly, I set out to be just that. My commitment was not appreciated; efforts made by parents - myself included - to encourage much-needed improvements only made us unpopular.

Our children paid the price for such parental involvement; ultimately most of us saw no reason to allow the system to kick our children around just because they were our children.

It's been some years now, and we can see the results: most of the children who were pulled out of the local schools still practice their faith; the vast majority of those who remained in the system do not.

Within the schools, my children had severe problems learning to read; some had learning issues across the board to the extent that they were placed in special ed classes.

I'm no genius, but I taught them all to read at home, and the earlier I started them, the better they did. The boy who couldn't do Math in the system turned out to be quite good at Math once we found a suitable program; his brother went from special ed via homeschool and an excellent Catholic boarding school to university . . .

That's why, even with some families not being as responsible at homeschooling as I would like to see, the overall picture still looks more positive when we bring them back home.

Top-notch private schools can be a different story, of course, but they're few - and expensive. I'll never regret sending one son to such a boarding school, but it didn't exist for the oldest, and being a liberal arts school it wasn't quite what my math & science guys needed. For the girls there was no such school; as far as I know there still isn't.





The root problem in a lot of bad catechesis is ultimately not ignorance, but pride. ~ Mark Shea

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Deacon Robert
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JRJ, I don't know where you live, but I don't agree with your description of public schools on the US. I live in Northern NJ between two of the poorest cities and none of what you describe is prevalent in these cities or the one I live in.
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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Rose of York
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Deacon Robert
Jan 1 2008, 06:36 PM
JRJ, I don't know where you live, but I don't agree with your description of public schools on the US. I live in Northern NJ between two of the poorest cities and none of what you describe is prevalent in these cities or the one I live in.

One could say the same about England (I cannot speak for the rest of the British Isles). One school in a city will have high standards, another will have pupils running riot. A lot depends upon the way families are brought up in the catchment area.

Here, all schools are regularly inspected. The members who are teachers, governors or parents will know more than I.
Keep the Faith!

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Emee
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Schools used to have a full Ofsted inspection every 3 years - they now receive partial inspections - that is, for specific areas.

Schools also undergo a financial audit every 3 years in my county (this is where I come in) and are working towards a Financial Management Standard which will be required to be tested for from this new year, 2008.

RC schools also undergo Diocesan inspections.

Therefore you would think that not much would get past the inspectors wouldn't you?? But, hey, I am also a parent and have been a school governor. I have had to sit on an exclusion panel and also a staff disciplinary panel - and that school was considered a good school in our local area...

My personal feeling is that while our primaries are lovely little institutions (the children are generally nurtured and are keen to learn - even in the non-Church schools) our high schools are way too big. Kids are simply a number. The quieter kids are never even noticed. Some teachers have way too much of a free reign and this is not always picked up upon - viz the teacher in the paper the other week secretly filmed tying up a student and taunting them in front of the class. And this is all because the schools are so big they cannot be monitored properly.

The senior schools cannot be changed overnight, so it is more important for our teenagers to have a secure home life against this backdrop than ever.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Tim Hawkins is a Christian, homeschooling comedian! Enjoy!
S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

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JRJ

Deacon Robert
Jan 1 2008, 06:36 PM
JRJ, I don't know where you live, but I don't agree with your description of public schools on the US. I live in Northern NJ between two of the poorest cities and none of what you describe is prevalent in these cities or the one I live in.

I respectfully inquire as to how much time you've spent in the hallways and classrooms and activities of the public schools? My comments are based on direct personal experience and the experiences of other parents.
Jennifer
hubby's dinosaur blog
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Deacon Robert
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JRJ
At least as much as you and your friends. My wife and I went to public schools. My two daughters went to public schools. My sister and cousin are public school teachers. My daughter's best friends teach in schools here. Also when our Catholic grade school closed I was part of the team that acclimatized parents and students to their new environment.

I also coached my youngest daughter's soccer team from the time she was in 1st grade until high school. It is part of the school activities so I was able to meet with many parents and students for more than 8 years.
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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JRJ

Deacon Robert
Jan 4 2008, 02:07 PM
JRJ
At least as much as you and your friends. My wife and I went to public schools. My two daughters went to public schools. My sister and cousin are public school teachers. My daughter's best friends teach in schools here. Also when our Catholic grade school closed I was part of the team that acclimatized parents and students to their new environment.

I also coached my youngest daughter's soccer team from the time she was in 1st grade until high school. It is part of the school activities so I was able to meet with many parents and students for more than 8 years.

I, too, attended public schools for my entire education, through university. Perhaps I was not specific enough with my question? How much time have you spent, out of the direct control of staff, in the hallways and classrooms of the public schools, observing the behavior of the children and the reaction of the staff to the behavior during the regular school day? I'm not trying to bait you. I understand no one wants to believe we send our children (my dear daughter was educated in the public schools) off to a poor environment for most of their waking hours. I know my experience must be difficult to read for someone with family and friends employed in the public schools. But my question is very serious and respectfully asked and specific to the regular school day and the actual experiences of the children day-in and day-out. What I saw with my own eyes was not an environment I'd want to be in.
Jennifer
hubby's dinosaur blog
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Deacon Robert
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As I said before, I don't know where you live, the behavior you describe is the exception, not the rule. If you have read my previous post you will see that I have spent at least 8 years among students both during school hours and outside of school hours and have rarely seen the behavior you claim is prevalent. If an incident occurs there are also penalties imposed. Criminal acts are reported to the police. behavior problems are referred to the administration. possible outcomes range from detetion to expulsion. Please, there is no need to reply. You are intent on inferring that all school systems in the US and those employed by them as being either inferior, corrupt, or incompetent. If this is what you believe, feel free, you are welcome to your opinion.
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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Rose of York
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I have a friend who does home schooling, in England. She is a qualified teacher and does a lot of work for an organisation that helps other home schoolers. Her children get involved in village activities, which are run by people their parents know and trust. That way, they have friends they can see in the school holidays. The oldest has autism. He is very quiet, uncommunicative, and withdrawn, but responds to animals. He loves cats and I often see him leaning over a wall stroking a pony. He was bullied at school, and so was his brother, just for being the brother of a boy with problems, so the parents pulled them both out of school.

The eldest is now studying for a degree, his mother expects him to get First Class Honours and take up a career, self employed, in something internet based, because he has difficulty relating to people outside his immediate circle.

The youngest is out and about on his bike, or doing the things lads used to do, often with his friends, exploring the little stream opposite our house, having fun whilst learning first hand about nature.

Both those boys were nervous and withdrawn when I first met them eight years ago. Since their mother took charge of their education they have come on by leaps and bounds.

So, home schooling has been good for those two, but perhaps it depends upon the individual child, the situation and the standard and ethos of local schools.

We are all individuals, with differing needs and aspirations.
Keep the Faith!

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shana buck, sfo
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Our children were enrolled in our parish Catholic school. My eldest had the 'fun' experience of several times, having a girl 'be her friend' and then suddenly announce "So-and-so wants to be my friend now, and she said I can't be your friend, too. I'm not going to be your friend anymore." Most of the time, one girl had fought with another and used mine until they patched things up. My eldest is still very shy of making new friends.

My second has Asperger's syndrome, which is a very mild form of autism. She didn't talk well until she was 4 years old, but was able to begin kindergarten at age 5. She was never really 'allowed' to become involved in the other kids' groups. I would watch her at playtime from my car (just before the end of the day I would arrive early, park the car and watch her class outside at play.) She would run around groups of kids, but they would never allow her to enter into their play, often angrily ordering her away. She was also bullied, but the kids who did the bullying were from the kind of families that donate a lot of money and so the bullying was never really resolved, much that I saw with my own eyes. I guess money means more than teaching children not to be cruel to each other. She hated school passionately.

My third and fourth went to school to kindergarten, first and the third to the second grades, and then I pulled the whole lot out. The principal was allowing worse and worse things to happen. Brittany Spears concert tickets were raffled off by the school two days after the woman did a strip tease down to pasties and panties on national TV. My criticism was met by, "Well, other parents don't agree with you." Huh? And if they toss their children off the bridge, I'm supposed to let them toss mine off too? I thought that home schooling was crazy, and here I was attempting the same very nutty thing! I was right, it is crazy, but it is also quite good for our family and very beneficial to the kids overall.

My kids now have real friends, and don't have to worry about being told they aren't popular enough to stay friends. The two oldest are still very shy of new people because of too many situations that happened when they were in school, but they do have friends. My kids belong to various groups like Boy Scouts or our home school's History Club. None of them hates school, although some don't exactly love it as the favorite part of the day! My fifth son has never known that Math was 'incredibly boring' and at 11 years old is learning algebra and geometry, because he loves it and is good at it. My 17 year old daughter with Asperger's can do more actual art work than math, because she is very very good at art and artistic things and as an artist does not need Algebra II. She does not plan to go to university or art school, preferring to work on her own. We can tailor her studies. My eldest is now enrolled full time as a university student at Franciscan University of Steubenville to study history. Many universities are now openly recruiting home schoolers. Most of them, but certainly not all, take their studies seriously and do very, very well in university.

In years where someone falls behind (like last year when I miscarried and nearly bled to death in the hospital and was too anemic to be attentive to their studies) we find that the kids will catch up rather quickly. One on one tutoring is far superior to classroom learning. We can stay with subjects, like spelling words, until they master them, rather than passing along to the next thing with the group. We can stop and study something interesting far longer and more deeply than if we were in a classroom because we don't have to follow a rigid schedule. Their end of year state-mandated testing shows they are all doing well.

And the together time has been wonderful! Oh, yes there are days when I want to pull my hair out and retire to an unknown cave, but what parent doesn't? :rolleyes:

In the Sacred & Immaculate Hearts - shana

"There is no triumph without loss, no victory without sacrifice, no freedom without suffering." -- JRR Tolkien

"Ours is an age of improved means to deteriorated ends." -JRR Tolkien

http://sthubertsrosary.com/default.aspx
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JRJ

Deacon Robert
Jan 4 2008, 08:36 PM
As I said before, I don't know where you live, the behavior you describe is the exception, not the rule. If you have read my previous post you will see that I have spent at least 8 years among students both during school hours and outside of school hours and have rarely seen the behavior you claim is prevalent. If an incident occurs there are also penalties imposed. Criminal acts are reported to the police. behavior problems are referred to the administration. possible outcomes range from detetion to expulsion. Please, there is no need to reply. You are intent on inferring that all school systems in the US and those employed by them as being either inferior, corrupt, or incompetent. If this is what you believe, feel free, you are welcome to your opinion.

I've shared my experience and what knowledge I have of US public education. Any interpretation of my "intent" is up to the individual.

I note the beauty and fullness of the experience of Shana's and Lilo's children. I want that for every child, but, as has been said, every family is different.
Jennifer
hubby's dinosaur blog
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Deacon Robert
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It looks like the State of California strikes again

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57679


This along with recent rulings in Germany and the UN's declaration on children gives me cause to be concerned about the future
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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Deleted User
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The latest newsletter from Catholic Culture also comments on the case
Quote:
 
There are a great many arguments a Catholic commentator can advance on the issue of compulsory education, but the first argument is simply that we all need to recognize what Philip Long already sees: Education has become an ideological battleground. One of the characteristic marks of a totalitarian society is compulsory State-controlled education for ideological purposes. We are not quite there yet, but we do well to reflect on who controls education, and for what ends. If a court in California or anywhere else seeks to push the totalitarian envelope, we ought to have sense enough to understand what this means, and to push back.

KatyA

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