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| Appropriate musical instruments for liturgical celbrations | |
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| Topic Started: Sunday, 17. June 2007, 17:41 (348 Views) | |
| Derekap | Sunday, 17. June 2007, 17:41 Post #1 |
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QV. In my younger days, organs featured very much in Cinemas. Organists played popular music of the day during intervals when usherettes were trying to sell us ice cream. Reginald Dixon was a very popular organist in the Tower Ballroom, Blackpool and on radio - playing popular music. So what do you suggest is a suitable musical instrument for church? I once (1950) attended Holy Mass (Tridentine Rite) in a religious order chapel in Rome which was accompanied by a trio, violin etc., playing such pieces as Ave Maria and Liebestraum. It was a girl's First Holy Communion and a member of the Paparatsi was there to record the event. Hand clapping in church started before V2. You say Holy Mass should normally be in Latin with, perhaps some vernacular. Do you suggest millions of Catholics and Orthodox of various Rites should switch?. When Latin was the vernacular was Holy Mass offered in another language? I don't think Pope Benedict XVI was insisting ALL Holy Masses should include some Latin. Just as much as most African and Asian music is strange to us I would not be surprised if Gregorian Chant is not equally strange to Africans and Asians. Unsularity can be very prevalent among Catholics, I know because I too have suffered from it. I was probably in my twenties before I knew Holy Mass was offered by Catholics in other Rites and later that there were Catholic Priests with wives and children (Maronites). |
| Derekap | |
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| Quicunque vult | Sunday, 17. June 2007, 21:51 Post #2 |
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Derekap To answer your various points: The cinema organ and pipe organ are quite different instruments, used in different contexts. The Council Fathers said this of the pipe organ in Sacrosanctum Concilium:
So far as other instruments are concerned, the document said:
Do the instruments of the popular song, the disco or the pub accord with the dignity of the temple? Do they contribute to the edification (ie spiritual enhancement) of the faithful, as opposed to the provision of entertainment? With reference to use of Latin, the document favoured preservation of Latin in the Latin rites. There was no thought of imposing Latin on (eg) Eastern rite Catholics. We'll have to see what more the Holy Father has to say about use of Latin. In Sacramentum Caritatis he recommended the use of Latin for Masses at international gatherings, save for the readings, the homily and the prayer of the faithful. He went on to suggest that:
This suggests that he favours a degree of wider use of Latin in ordinary liturgies as well. As far as your comment about Africans and Asians is concerned, I would point out that the Prefect for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments is Cardinal Arinze (from Nigeria) and the Secretary is Archbishop Ranjith (from Sri Lanka). Both are enthusiasts for Gregorian chant, and I suspect would regard any suggestion that Africans and Asians can't cope with this most sublime form of musical worship as not a little patronising. QV |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 17. June 2007, 22:00 Post #3 |
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Quicunque vult
Quicunque vult Do you consider that a low cost electronic organ is suitable for sacred use; that it accords with the dignity of the temple, and that it truly contributes to the edification of the faithful? |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Quicunque vult | Sunday, 17. June 2007, 22:12 Post #4 |
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Rose Fortunately the technology has changed, and it is now possible at relatively low cost to reproduce electronically the sound of the pipe organ. The sound is quite different from that of the cinema organ to which Derekap referred. QV |
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| Emee | Sunday, 17. June 2007, 22:46 Post #5 |
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Well we have an electric guitar once a month in our Church and personally I find the hymns we sing to it VERY spiritual uplifting.
:D I love organ music, but it's nice to have a change once in a while, and as long as it's done with due reverence - which it is in our Church - I can't see the harm in that... Also we have heard that our new Parish Priest who is coming to join us in September plays the flute, which I think is absolutely wonderful - although I wouldn't imagine he would have the time or the opportunity to play it during Mass...!! |
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| CARLO | Sunday, 17. June 2007, 23:30 Post #6 |
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In reality it is the way the instruments are played and the standard of the music that matters. A Spanish guitar, flute or keyboard played well with good material is very uplifting. On the other hand the scrape of badly tuned acoustic guitars churning out three chord ditties, the cacophony of tambourines or the wail of badly played recorders is sheer torture! Veritas Truth CARLO |
| Judica me Deus | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 17. June 2007, 23:41 Post #7 |
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So was the organ in my last parish. It was a very good organ, the organist did not know how to play properly. Where I go now, if the organist is not available, one good singer leads us. In a small church, that works well. I prefer accompaniment by a good guitarist, to that of an organist who cannot even play in tune. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| newminster | Monday, 18. June 2007, 11:16 Post #8 |
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The electronic 'burp box', which is probably the best that small and relatively poor parishes can afford, has come a long way in recent years and can now come fairly close to reproducing the sound of a decent pipe organ. On the other hand there are hymns (Dear Estelle's 'Walk with me ...' comes to mind) that have passages in them which make even the best of organs sound like a fairground steam organ. As usual, the fault lies with the composer not with the instrument. As far as guitars are concerned there is one local parish which is well worth going to for its rumbustious guitar playing where the hymns are chosen to suit while a neighbouring one has two guitars, a flute and a violin and everything sounds like a dirge. And either the leader or the priest (I'm not sure which) on occasion selects hymns that were written for the organ and the result is, shall we say, infelicitous! :rolleyes: |
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| tomais | Monday, 18. June 2007, 15:44 Post #9 |
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Now why I wonder why John Knox said what he did about the organ? Why instruments at all other than human voices |
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| newminster | Monday, 18. June 2007, 15:57 Post #10 |
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Good point, tomais, and we frequently sing without accompaniment at vigil Mass. The leader tends to start a tone low which has most of use reaching into our boots for the bottom note but since I usually struggle to reach the high ones I can't complain. I do find that whoever 'sets' the hymns for us doesn't seem to realise that there are some modern hymns (some older ones as well but not to the same extent) that are not really ideal for unaccompanied congregational singing. They may be theologically sound and appropriate for the Sunday but they need the discipline of instrumental accompaniment to make sure you come in on the right beat and pause in the right places. I suspect this is the reason why a lot of 'traditional' hymns are a bit clunky. You just need to hear the first verse and then singing along is easy. |
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| CARLO | Monday, 18. June 2007, 19:26 Post #11 |
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Tomais A thoroughly Protestant attitude! :rolleyes: Mind you Gregorian Chant is very pleasing and disposes of the need for instruments of any sort. Anything other than the wretched bagpipes! Slainte! Pax CARLO Riding out the monsoon |
| Judica me Deus | |
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| Derekap | Monday, 18. June 2007, 21:49 Post #12 |
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I think many Catholics in Oriental, African and Latin American countries would prefer use of their own musical instruments. When I was stationed in India in 1945 the local Cathedral held a Corpus Christi Feast and Procession and during the procession in the streets a groups of Indian men sang their own hymns to the accompaniment of Indian Instruments. I was told by one of the priests, such was not (at that time) allowed within the church. Incidently it was during November, the feast being transferred from the wet to the dry season. The Coptic Orthodox Church usually uses tambourines and triangles (only) to accompany their chanting. The last time I attended Holy Mass in the Catholicos's (Leader's) Cathedral of The Armenian Apostolic Church (Orthodox) a few miles from the capital of Armenia I was taken aback because the young lady organist, like all the women members of the choir, was wearing a blue cloak with a hood - just like many pictures of Our Lady. |
| Derekap | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 18. June 2007, 22:44 Post #13 |
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Come the Revolution, we'll convert the whole of the British population and then we can have glorious former Salvation Army bands in Catholic Churches.
When all the muslims have been converted, we can have cantors (so called Ministry of Music) at the top of the minarets, calling the Catholic faithful to prayer. Ex Methodists can be sent out to small rural parishes to lead the singing. Methodists can really belt out good hymns. York Minster organ can stay where it is, the building will be returned to its rightful owners. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Derekap | Saturday, 23. June 2007, 20:40 Post #14 |
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Before the invention of pipe organs what musical instrument/instruments is/were used in church? |
| Derekap | |
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| newminster | Saturday, 23. June 2007, 20:56 Post #15 |
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The simple answer is "other types of organ"! For all we have some reservations about some aspects of its accuracy, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11297a.htm gives a pretty accurate account of the development of accompaniment to liturgical music. Originally of course it was simply the human voice and Gregorian Chant still sounds at its best sung that way. |
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3:44 PM Jul 11