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Society Of Saint Peter; can anyone tell me more?
Topic Started: Tuesday, 5. June 2007, 22:08 (414 Views)
Josephine
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One sunny day recently I fell into conversation with a gentleman who was wearing in his lapel a gold-coloured badge consisting of a triple crown and the crossed keys.

He informed me it denoted membership of the Society of Saint Peter. He seemed like a real enthusiast and I would have liked to hear more but circumstances were not favourable.

Can anyone tell me more?

Josephine
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Michael

Got me curious so i googled and didn't like what i saw seems like sspx types http://www.wandea.org.pl/society-saint-peter-fssp.html
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Deleted User
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The Priestly Fraternity of St Peter is fully approved by Rome and not associated with SSPX in any way.
http://www.fssp.org.uk/
There is a confraternity for lay people
http://www.fssp.org.uk/confraternity.html
KatyA
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Rose of York
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Michael
Jun 5 2007, 10:11 PM
Got me curious so i googled and didn't like what i saw seems like sspx types http://www.wandea.org.pl/society-saint-peter-fssp.html

Not exactly, Michael. Priests of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter offer Latin Tridentine Mass according to the 1962 Rite, but they acknowledge that the New Rite is valid, and permissible, and they accept the decress of the Second Vatican Council.


The big difference is that SSPX are in schism, their bishops are excommunicated. The Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter is not in schism, it has the approval of Rome. They do not have, or claim to have, their own bishops. Their priests are ordained by Diocesan bishops.

International Website, Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter

The Fraternity was founded in 1998, at the request of the then Cardinal Ratzinger.
Keep the Faith!

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Jamie

Michael
Jun 5 2007, 09:11 PM
Got me curious so i googled and didn't like what i saw seems like sspx types http://www.wandea.org.pl/society-saint-peter-fssp.html

I followed Michael's link and certainly reading the explanation offered on this site they would seem to be an odd bunch who deny the validity of most of the sacraments post VII, and also the standing of bishops who, they claim, have no valid power to ordain.

Can't say I had ever heard of them before, but I would agree they certainly seem to be an odd clique and probably not what Cardinal Ratzinger had in mind when he sanctioned them....but of course that was in the days before he was infallible :unsure:
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JARay

Rose writes:-
Quote:
 

The big difference is that SSPX are in schism, their bishops are excommunicated.

I don't think that you can make this bland statement Rose.
I do not have the comments of various Cardinals etc. to hand but to be schismatic one has to deny the Papacy, as the Orthodox do. Now the SSPX certainly do not deny the authority of the present Pope, or the last one, or any of them for that matter. Several Cardinals have declared that the SSPX is not schismatic. The Pope himself invited Bishop Fellay to Castelgandofo for consultation very early in his Papacy.
The bit that is problematic, as far as I am concerned is that they operate outside of the established hierarchy. They set up churches without permission from the established bishop and they move priests around without consulting the established bishop as well.
But surely, that is a disciplinary matter not a matter of fidelity.
I will grant you that one can argue that their bishops are excommunicated because of their illicit (but not invalid) Consecration. The fact that their bishops are validly consecrated means that any Ordinations which they perform are equally valid, as are all of the Sacraments which they confer. They may be illicit but they are not invalid.
In fact, it has been declared that for any Catholic attending any SSPX Mass, although not welcomed, such an attendance is totally valid. Indeed, if one attends a Greek Orthodox Mass, one has indeed been at a valid Mass even though they are in schism because they deny the authority of the Pope. They also deny the validity of several Councils of the Church and they certainly deny the validity of Vatican II

JARay
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Rose of York
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Apostolic Letter of Pope John Paul II
Pope John Paul II
 
3. In itself, this act was one of disobedience to the Roman Pontiff in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated. Hence such disobedience - which implies in practice the rejection of the Roman primacy - constitutes a schismatic act.(3) In performing such an act, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning sent to them by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops on 17 June last, Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.(4)


The document makes it pretty clear that the illicit ordinations of bishops ensured the apolistic succession is sacramentally perpetuated, so I take it SSPX priests are validly ordained. That does not alter the fact that they are disobedient to The Holy Father.

A Catholic priest is supposed to be authorised by a bishop, who himself is authorised by the Pope, to administer the sacraments. I read somewhere that therefore they cannot validly give absolution, or witness marriages, in their capacity as priests. Can any member point to anything authoritative about that.

The Pope himself did indeed invite Bishop Fellay to Castelgandofo for consultation very early in his Papacy, but SSPX had their terms - including lifting of the excommuniation of Archbishop Lefevbre. That was not granted, and SSPX are still outside the fold, whereas the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter is, and it has the approval of the Holy Father.
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Jun 6 2007, 01:31 PM
Apostolic Letter of Pope John Paul II
Pope John Paul II
 
3. In itself, this act was one of disobedience to the Roman Pontiff in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated. Hence such disobedience - which implies in practice the rejection of the Roman primacy - constitutes a schismatic act.(3) In performing such an act, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning sent to them by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops on 17 June last, Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.(4)


The document makes it pretty clear....

Is it infallible?

Clare.
S.A.G.

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Rose of York
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Clare
Jun 6 2007, 01:48 PM
Rose of York
Jun 6 2007, 01:31 PM


The document makes it pretty clear....

Is it infallible?

Clare.

Infallible or not, its good enough for any Catholic who believes in obeying the Pope.

Keep the Faith!

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JARay

You certainly make valid points here Rose.
The Consecration was in direct disobedience to the Pope and so it is a grave matter.
But, as you say, those Consecrations were indeed valid although illicit.
Hence the ordination of priests by these bishops is also quite valid but may be seen as illicit.
As to the hearing of Confession by these priests there is a canon law (so far as I remember) that only with the permission of the Ordinary (i.e. the bishop) may a priest hear Confessions in any particular diocese. Again, this is a matter of Church law and I doubt whether such a Confession would be dismissed by Our Lord himself. There is an exception of course and that is that when a person is in danger of death, any validly ordained priest may hear the confession of that person, even if the priest has been stripped of his clerical status. As to the validity of marriage I do not know. In many cases there is also the local secular law to be taken into consideration. As I recall, it is the couple who marry themselves. They bestow the sacrament on each other and the priest is the one who represents the Church, witnessing to this bestowal of the sacrament on the couple, by the couple.
But I'm not sure canonically, where this stands.

JARay
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Jun 6 2007, 02:09 PM
Clare
Jun 6 2007, 01:48 PM
Rose of York
Jun 6 2007, 01:31 PM


The document makes it pretty clear....

Is it infallible?

Clare.

Infallible or not, its good enough for any Catholic who believes in obeying the Pope.

Are we thinking Catholics or not?

Rose on another thread
 
You see, Catholics have taken to thinking, and reading, and studying. Once upon a time Sister would say to the class "the teaching about infallibility is infallible, so you have to believe it, or else".

That was it. "If they don't believe infallibility is inallible, off with their heads".


A non-infallible statement of a Pope is not good enough for me! Off with my head!

Then at least, without my head, I won't be able to think anymore!

Clare.


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Rose of York
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JARay
Jun 6 2007, 02:11 PM
As I recall, it is the couple who marry themselves.
JARay

Just to introduce brief light relief into the discussion:

I thought they married each other, not themselves. :D
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Rose of York
Jun 5 2007, 04:54 PM
WE can't blame Henry VIII.

We can't blame the Seciond Vatican Council.

We can blame education of the masses. You see, Catholics have taken to thinking, and reading, and studying. Once upon a time Sister would say to the class "the teaching about infallibility is infallible, so you have to believe it, or else".

That was it. "If they don't believe infallibility is inallible, off with their heads".

Yes, Clare. I wrote that in a thread called " Replying to The Church As Truth And Infallible". Allow me to explain, please. It was written in a light hearted spirit. If you were old enough to have been in infant schol in the forties you would have got the subtle message.
Keep the Faith!

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Eve
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Catholic Cyberforum Rules and Guidelines
 
6 Catholic Cyberforum is proud to honour the Papacy. Promotion of organisations purporting to be Catholic, but not having the full approval of the current Pope, is not permitted, nor are references to the writing of founders or members of such organisations.


Promotion of SSPX is covered in the above, from our Rules and Guidelines. It does not have the full approval of the Pope.

We want reasonably free speech on the forum, we have members who hope for the opportunity to attend Tridentine Mass weekly.

The Fraternity of Saint Peter has the full approval of His Holiness Pope Benedict, so the administrators of Catholic Cyberforum are happy to allow it to be "promoted" on this site.

Josephine rightly started a discussion about Fraternity of Saint Peter, that is good. We would be happy to widen this for information about any organisations or societies devoted to Tridentine Mass, provided it has the approval of Pope Benedict .
Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately?
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Eve
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The Good Shepherd Institute in Bordeaux is approved, there are other organisations (not Catholic) with similar names.

The one in Bordeaux has the approval of the Vatican. So does the Institute of Christ the King.

Any person wishing to attend Latin Tridentine Mass and not sure which are approved by the hierarchy, could contact any of the Latin Mass Societies that are listed in the forum's thread "Interesting Catholic Websites". They are:

Latin Mass Society of England and Wales
Latin Mass of Ireland
Una Voce Scotland

They should be able to advise. Otherwise you could contact your diocese, or ask your parish priest.
Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately?
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