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The Church As Truth And Infallible; correct answer-explanation debateable
Topic Started: Sunday, 3. June 2007, 18:03 (545 Views)
maklavan

jimc1
Jun 4 2007, 02:40 PM
Rose of York
Jun 4 2007, 12:40 AM
jimc1
Jun 4 2007, 01:11 AM
Rose-in every way shape and form I regard myself as a faithful Catholic from the cradle and also as a fid.def



ay up, so did Henry VIII!



No comparison he had five wives and chopped their heads off-had he still been around he would probably have had his own website and forum and we would all have lost our heads as heretics as faithful Catholics-jimc

What a slander! He actually had six wives and only two were executed!
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newminster
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Jamie
I will agree with you about the advisability of the doctrine of infallibility. Bit like Willetts and his 'blast against the pernicious grammar school'. Nobody was especially interested at the time and all that has happened since is that the Church now finds herself under attack for a doctrine that most Catholics probably always agreed with if they ever thought about it at all and that most non-Catholics think to be quite unreasonableand just further proof of the Church's arrogance.

That's the trouble with these damn' Vatican Councils. More trouble than they're worth!
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Rose of York
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WE can't blame Henry VIII.

We can't blame the Seciond Vatican Council.

We can blame education of the masses. You see, Catholics have taken to thinking, and reading, and studying. Once upon a time Sister would say to the class "the teaching about infallibility is infallible, so you have to believe it, or else".

That was it. "If they don't believe infallibility is inallible, off with their heads".
Keep the Faith!

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newminster
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I wasn't blaming the Second Vatican Council, Rose, I was blaming the First! They're all more trouble than enough!!
Reminds me of Isaiah, 45: "I am God; there is no other. By myself I swear it."
Uhhuh!
I believe "Catch-22" is the modern expression.
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Rose of York
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newminster
Jun 5 2007, 06:07 PM
I wasn't blaming the Second Vatican Council, Rose, I was blaming the First!

Sorry, newminster. I get used to the Second being blamed for everything that happened from the sixties onwards! :D :rolleyes:

What we need is a Third to help us stop worrying about the others. :wh:

Keep the Faith!

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MickCook
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Not much is known abut St. Linus, apart from the fact that St. Paul mentions him in his Epistle to Timothy. His father's name was Herculanus, but the origin of this assertion is unknown. What we do know is that St. Linus succeeded St. Peter as Pope - he was the second Pope after Peter. St. Linus was buried beside St. Peter in the Vatican area.

As the early Church developed, Tradition (as mentioned by St. Paul) was more important than New Testament Scripture, because there was yet no agreement on what was and what was not New Testament Scripture. For example, some did not regard the Gospel of St. John as Scripture.

The history of the early Christian Church is the history of the Catholic Church - no Protestant even existed and did not exist for another one and a half thousand years. Protestants are recent, Catholics are not.

The infallibility of the Pope refers to when the Pope "speaks from the chair" of St. Peter on a matter of Faith and Morals, it does not refer to everything said by the Pope. The meaning of Infallibility is covered by The Catholic Encyclopedia.

History, the writings of the Father's of the Church, Apostolic Tradition and Sacred Scripture all combine to reveal the Catholic Church as the Church founded by Jesus Christ - there is no other.

:)
Mick
The Cook Companies
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jimc1
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To whet your curosity or appetite or raise your hacKles as the case maybe there is a strong legend and recent scripture study that suggests that the Second Pope Linus was British[Briton]son of welsh Caradoc better known to us as Caratacus who was betrayed,captured and taken to Rome in chains but freed by Caesar to remain for ever in Rome in exile with his family as part of Caesar"s household-he is mentioned in scriptures by St.Paul -btw I always like to accept and explain Papal Infallibility as the Holy Ghost being infallible through the Pope and not the Pope as being infallible of himself as it wereso to speak for as Peter "flesh and blood has not revealed this to thee but my Father in heaven"-jimc
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James
James
I can certainly see where you are coming from Jim and, no doubt, the Holy Spirit is appealed to for help in making big decisions by His Holiness.

But, like all communities, - and the church is a worldwide community - the leader is surrounded by many experts in matters where he himself may not be well informed and must seek the advice of these people before he retreats with the many options given to him so that he can make a private decision.

There, I expect, he may spend a long time in study, meditation and prayer before he
decides on a course for the community to take or observe.
There, I would expect, what you mention happens in some form.

Peter also had information to work on from Christ and what he was doing and ,from that information, answered as his thoughts led him. Peter processed the information and experiences with Jesus in his own mind in such a way as for Jesus to say his conclusions were revealed from above.


I would not think The Holy Father goes off into a little chapel on his own with no knowledge of the issues involved and the Holy Spirit suddenly infuses him with enlightenment and he returns to pass on the message recieved.

If so, why all these departments within the Vatican, experts in various fields of work available and worldwide communication receiviing and supplying information continuously?.
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MickCook
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jimc1
Jun 7 2007, 11:16 PM
To whet your curosity or appetite or raise your hacKles as the case maybe there is a strong legend and recent scripture study that suggests that the Second Pope Linus was British[Briton]son of welsh Caradoc better known to us as Caratacus who was betrayed,captured and taken to Rome in chains but freed by Caesar to remain for ever in Rome in exile with his family as part of Caesar"s household-he is mentioned in scriptures by St.Paul -btw I always like to accept and explain Papal Infallibility as the Holy Ghost being infallible through the Pope and not the Pope as being infallible of himself as it wereso to speak for as Peter "flesh and blood has not revealed this to thee but my Father in heaven"-jimc

Jimc,
You didn't mention what the source was for this titbit of information about Linus. Given that the Brits (Celts) were everywhere and that they were also found among the Roman Soldiers (because they were good in a scrap), it would not surprise me to find the odd Brit or two in Rome itself.

If you click on The Catholic Encyclopedia in my original post it will take you to a quote on infallibility with more information than I could supply here.

Again, it does not apply to everything said by the Pope because he's not the source of the infallibility - God is - as you correctly assert.

:)
Mick
The Cook Companies
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