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My Goodness !?; Goodness me !?
Topic Started: Sunday, 6. May 2007, 22:53 (1,700 Views)
James
James
jimc1
May 29 2007, 04:30 PM



He is searching for us and will find us if we give up and do not move[imho this is how I see it]-jimc

To understand more Jim for I am more practical than academic and "terms" need to be explained to me in a practical way.
Much like "pure maths" is harder for me to understand that the same formula used in applied maths.

So from a practical day to day and understandable explanation - for me
What is this non moving condition?.
Is it a mental state ?
Is it a non thinking state ?
Is it a physical state ?

How do you apply this condition in your daily life so I may understand a bit more. ?

Better still if you can guve me an example of it at work in "day to day" living ?

Are you a Buddhist man Jim ?

James
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jimc1
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James
May 29 2007, 05:58 PM
jimc1
May 29 2007, 04:30 PM



He is searching for us and will find us if we give up and do not move[imho this is how I see it]-jimc

To understand more Jim for I am more practical than academic and "terms" need to be explained to me in a practical way.
Much like "pure maths" is harder for me to understand that the same formula used in applied maths.

So from a practical day to day and understandable explanation - for me
What is this non moving condition?.
Is it a mental state ?
Is it a non thinking state ?
Is it a physical state ?

How do you apply this condition in your daily life so I may understand a bit more. ?

Better still if you can guve me an example of it at work in "day to day" living ?

Are you a Buddhist man Jim ?

James


James imho and as I see it-Jesus knows we are lost sheep[even if we dont know or wont accept this] and where we are and need help"before they call I will hear and before they ask I will answer"-so if the lost sheep keeps on bleating and moving about off radar screen and wavelength then he is in danger from the big bad wolves in sheep"s clothing -jimc
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jimc1
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MickCook
May 28 2007, 11:57 PM
Jimc, Let's get back to your original reply to Rose:

Quote:
 
Rose-here is my cryptic reply-we are not made in the image and likeness of God-this belittles God[imho]-we are a fallen image and likeness - like a temple in ruins still showing forth the glory that once was man who was created in the image and likeness of God-this glory will once more be ours through the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ who will restore to this image and likeness-jimc


You wrote: "We are not made in the image and likeness of God - this belittles God..." this is not really true. I suspect you didn't think about this properly.
Gen: 1:26
Quote:
 
And God said let us make man in our image and after our likeness..."


This applies to man in both body and soul. It is because of the fallen nature of man that it became necessary for Jesus to die on the cross. But the image of God was not in any sense "remade" which is what you seem to be suggesting.

You wrote: "we are a fallen image and likeness - like a temple in ruins still showing forth the glory that once was man who was created in the image and likeness of God." This does not make sense. God made man, man did not make man, even when man fell into a state of sin - this is not man remaking himself. Your comments seem to be denying Creation, even if that is not your intention. Jesus made it perfectly clear that sin comes from within a person, it is an act of free will otherwise it would not be sin.

You wrote: "this glory will once more be ours through the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ who will restore to this image and likeness."

You have this back to front. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross and his resurrection has already restored man's dignity. This should be in the past tense, not future tense. Man has always been the image and likeness of God and the sacrifice of Christ, because of it's spiritual nature, reaches through all time.

It is a fundamental teaching of the Church that the mercy of God cannot be restricted and if man repents from the heart, God can forgive him: but this is in accord with the will of God. Salvation comes not through faith alone, but from the fruits of repentance, as Jesus Christ made perfectly clear. The Gospel stresses the need to love God with all one's heart, all one's mind, all one's soul and all one's strength. It also stressed the unconditional nature of love for one's neighbour. Such love is revealed through good works and those works that are the fruits of repentance. The meaning of this is revealed by the Holy Spirit present in all of us, as I'm sure you are aware.

I suspect that what you were trying to say is that Christ's sacrifice on the cross has restored human dignity to what God originally intended in Creation.


Mick-you quote Gen.1:26 of which I am well aware but this was man[Adam]berore "THE FALL"-Man[you and I]after "THE FALL" were created in the fallen image of Adam not God-Gen.5:3-this makes sense and also commonsense[imho] for Adam was created perfect and immortal,we are neither now but will be restored to this glory on the last day "and now O Father glorify me with the glory I had with Thee before the world was and the glory which Thou has given me,I have given to them that they may be one,as we also are one"-jimc
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James
James
jimc1
May 29 2007, 07:06 PM
[
James imho and as I see it-Jesus knows we are lost sheep[even if we dont know or wont accept this] and where we are and need help"before they call I will hear and before they ask I will answer"-so if the lost sheep keeps on bleating and moving about off radar screen and wavelength then he is in danger from the big bad wolves in sheep"s clothing -jimc

No No Jim.
We are not the lost sheep - we are the sheep who have been found.
We are already with the Father.
He has found us in Jesus.

The Father now asks very little of you.
He asks that you seek truth and speak it when you find it.
He asks that you treat your brother or sister as you would be treated.
Forgiving what you need to be forgiven of.
He asks you to honour your parents and value your children.
When you look to sin on the way then you are lost again.
But call to MY SON and HE is there.
MY kingdom is in your heart, free from greed and hate.
To find it you must surrender your willfulness and listen to the quiet voice within.
For there I AM. and there you will find US.
And when you die in MY SON then there will be no judgement for I promised you that.
You are mine and I am yours and MY kingdom is already within you.
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MickCook
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Quote:
 
after "THE FALL" were created in the fallen image of Adam not God-Gen.5:3

Genesis 5:3 states that Adam had a son whom he named Seth, after his own image and likeness. This means that he looked like Adam, it does not mean that Adam "Created" him because no human being can create a soul and the "image of God" refers to man in both body and soul. To separate the soul from the body is known as dualism and the Church considers this heresy. You are misreading Sacred Scripture, which should not be taken literally. Adam did not Create, he simply had a son after God had told him to go fourth and multiply (Genesis 1:28), a command of God that came before the fall.

Jimc, what you are saying is actually contrary to Church teaching. You are saying that man is creating man and in a sense has taken over from God. This is clearly NOT the case - creation is the sole province of God.

:)
Mick
The Cook Companies
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jimc1
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MickCook
May 29 2007, 10:52 PM
Quote:
 
after "THE FALL" were created in the fallen image of Adam not God-Gen.5:3

Genesis 5:3 states that Adam had a son whom he named Seth, after his own image and likeness. This means that he looked like Adam, it does not mean that Adam "Created" him because no human being can create a soul and the "image of God" refers to man in both body and soul. To separate the soul from the body is known as dualism and the Church considers this heresy. You are misreading Sacred Scripture, which should not be taken literally. Adam did not Create, he simply had a son after God had told him to go fourth and multiply (Genesis 1:28), a command of God that came before the fall.

Jimc, what you are saying is actually contrary to Church teaching. You are saying that man is creating man and in a sense has taken over from God. This is clearly NOT the case - creation is the sole province of God.


Mick....it seems I have to correct you not on just one statement but on every one eventually if not sooner-starting with Teilhard who caused almost as great a crisis in and for the Church it seems as did Galileo and the backlash still lingers on it seems-be that as it may one must ask why these two among some others are held in such high esteem and favour by some Catholics-even among the clergy and hierarchy-jimc
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PJD


KatyA quite rightly mentioned predestination– which acts directly against the teaching of the Church on free will (some confuse predestination with God’s Foreknowledge). That is why I believe we must be very circumspect about the manner in which we interpret biblical passages. Relying instead on Holy Mother Church through the Saints.

Take for example Romans 7:14-15 which mentions being ‘sold under sin’ and ‘I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do’. Anyone entering into this rashly might be led to the conclusion that the idea of free will is suspect. But this is not so under proper direction, or indeed as regards common sense.


For “I am carnal, sold under sin” means that being carnal, and like Adam, we are placed between good and evil, and have it in our power to choose what we will. This completely equates to both principles i.e. the free will God gave man and His Justice as a consequence of having violated the spiritual law.

Again Romans 7:15 in particular is not referring to the doing evil, but of only thinking it. For we cannot hinder thoughts from coming into our minds, since we receive them when they are inspired into us from outside; but we are able to abstain from obeying them and acting upon them. Therefore it is in our power to will not to think these things; but not to bring it about that they shall pass away, so as not to come into the mind again. Thus although it is not in our power to think or not to think of improper things, it is in our power to act or not to act upon them.

PJD

[ ”For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin” (7:14)“For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do”(7:15)]

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jimc1
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PJD
May 30 2007, 05:32 PM
KatyA quite rightly mentioned predestination– which acts directly against the teaching of the Church on free will (some confuse predestination with God’s Foreknowledge). That is why I believe we must be very circumspect about the manner in which we interpret biblical passages. Relying instead on Holy Mother Church through the Saints.

Take for example Romans 7:14-15 which mentions being ‘sold under sin’ and ‘I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do’. Anyone entering into this rashly might be led to the conclusion that the idea of free will is suspect. But this is not so under proper direction, or indeed as regards common sense.


For “I am carnal, sold under sin” means that being carnal, and like Adam, we are placed between good and evil, and have it in our power to choose what we will. This completely equates to both principles i.e. the free will God gave man and His Justice as a consequence of having violated the spiritual law.

Again Romans 7:15 in particular is not referring to the doing evil, but of only thinking it. For we cannot hinder thoughts from coming into our minds, since we receive them when they are inspired into us from outside; but we are able to abstain from obeying them and acting upon them. Therefore it is in our power to will not to think these things; but not to bring it about that they shall pass away, so as not to come into the mind again. Thus although it is not in our power to think or not to think of improper things, it is in our power to act or not to act upon them.

PJD

[ ”For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin” (7:14)“For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do”(7:15)]


PJD....Even if it be accepted that that your interpretation is the correct one-it appears in the last few para sentences that you are doing a lot of thinking that you do not in fact do so your previous paras could be equally fallacious-jimc
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jimc1
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MickCook
May 29 2007, 10:52 PM
Quote:
 
after "THE FALL" were created in the fallen image of Adam not God-Gen.5:3

Genesis 5:3 states that Adam had a son whom he named Seth, after his own image and likeness. This means that he looked like Adam, it does not mean that Adam "Created" him because no human being can create a soul and the "image of God" refers to man in both body and soul. To separate the soul from the body is known as dualism and the Church considers this heresy. You are misreading Sacred Scripture, which should not be taken literally. Adam did not Create, he simply had a son after God had told him to go fourth and multiply (Genesis 1:28), a command of God that came before the fall.

Jimc, what you are saying is actually contrary to Church teaching. You are saying that man is creating man and in a sense has taken over from God. This is clearly NOT the case - creation is the sole province of God.


Mick -you have misinterpreted and misconstrued and then pointed to me as being so naive as to reject God as creator then as even now - I did say we are now created body and soul by God in the fallen image of Adam-btw you seem to have overlooked my appeal to commonsense-jimc
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PJD

Jim

I suppose I must really apologise to you - I have been a bit naughty - taken my cue from St. Methodius, but didn't mention it.

But I won't do it again; or rather rarely- temptation from without you see (smile).

PJD

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