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My Goodness !?; Goodness me !?
Topic Started: Sunday, 6. May 2007, 22:53 (1,702 Views)
Rose of York
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jimc1
May 27 2007, 10:57 PM
Rose-being cryptic I left one word out[faith]-this glory will once more be ours through faith in the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ

Will there be no need for repentance? Will people who have done wicked things, and died unrepentant, relying on the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, have the glory of which you write?

Keep the Faith!

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jimc1
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Rose of York
May 27 2007, 10:04 PM
jimc1
May 27 2007, 10:57 PM
Rose-being cryptic I left one word out[faith]-this glory will once more be ours through faith in the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ

Will there be no need for repentance? Will people who have done wicked things, and died unrepentant, relying on the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, have the glory of which you write?



Rose.....its best we refer to what jESUS has to say and not what you or I or anyone else-"they that be whole need not a Physician"-"Physician heal thysely"-"I have come not to call the just but sinners to repentence"-"he who saves his life loses it-he who loses his life saves it"-"I have come not to judge or condemn the world but to save it"-"judge not lest ye be judged etc-btw as llong as they truly rely on the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ the answer must be yes-jimc
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James
James
jimc1
May 27 2007, 11:59 PM
Rose of York
May 27 2007, 10:04 PM
jimc1
May 27 2007, 10:57 PM
Rose-being cryptic I left one word out[faith]-this glory will once more be ours through faith in the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ

Will there be no need for repentance? Will people who have done wicked things, and died unrepentant, relying on the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, have the glory of which you write?



Rose.....its best we refer to what jESUS has to say and not what you or I or anyone else-"they that be whole need not a Physician"-"Physician heal thysely"-"I have come not to call the just but sinners to repentence"-"he who saves his life loses it-he who loses his life saves it"-"I have come not to judge or condemn the world but to save it"-"judge not lest ye be judged etc-btw as llong as they truly rely on the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ the answer must be yes-jimc

Sorry but I have lost the wavelength -- again!

Question from Rose - Will there be no need for repentance and unrepentant people will have the glory of which you write.

Reply from Jimc - Not my words, Jesus said "I have come not to call the just but sinners to repentance".etc.

Jmc conclusion - As long as they rely on grace and mercy of Jesus - the answer is yes .


I can't see the logic of the conclusion from the words of Jesus.

My conclusion would be something like - If you answer my call to repentance then you can rely on my grace and mercy.

But as I say I'm usually away on another wavelength,
My wife tells me that as well !!!



Ps. my definition of repentance to avoid confusion and for visitors. :-

To review one's lifestyle and try to change any bad choices or actions, whether habitual or occasional, which can harm or take away from the peace of one's self or others. To apologise where possible and be forgiving to one's self.
To become aware within of the harmful tendencies and confess them befoe God and apologise.
Then mercy, forgivness and grace will follow as I understand it. !!
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jimc1
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James
May 28 2007, 02:39 AM
jimc1
May 27 2007, 11:59 PM
Rose of York
May 27 2007, 10:04 PM
jimc1
May 27 2007, 10:57 PM
Rose-being cryptic I left one word out[faith]-this glory will once more be ours through faith in the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ

Will there be no need for repentance? Will people who have done wicked things, and died unrepentant, relying on the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, have the glory of which you write?



Rose.....its best we refer to what jESUS has to say and not what you or I or anyone else-"they that be whole need not a Physician"-"Physician heal thysely"-"I have come not to call the just but sinners to repentence"-"he who saves his life loses it-he who loses his life saves it"-"I have come not to judge or condemn the world but to save it"-"judge not lest ye be judged etc-btw as llong as they truly rely on the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ the answer must be yes-jimc

Sorry but I have lost the wavelength -- again!

Question from Rose - Will there be no need for repentance and unrepentant people will have the glory of which you write.

Reply from Jimc - Not my words, Jesus said "I have come not to call the just but sinners to repentance".etc.

Jmc conclusion - As long as they rely on grace and mercy of Jesus - the answer is yes .


I can't see the logic of the conclusion from the words of Jesus.

My conclusion would be something like - If you answer my call to repentance then you can rely on my grace and mercy.

But as I say I'm usually away on another wavelength,
My wife tells me that as well !!!


James -to be crisp and cryptic-we sin because we are sinners some bigger sinners than others-like the two thieves on the cross but one relied on the grace and mercy of JESUS CHRIST-btw I do think many are born devils and also made so by circumstances-so judge not"for from those to whom much is given much will be required but to those who have not the wherewithal much will be forgiven"-jimc
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James
James
Jimc

As you were writing above message, I was also doing a post script which crossed with yours.
I am aware from where I may normally hold conversations (non catholic atmosphere - not anti catholic) that people are not always familiar with "churchy" words like "sin" and "repentance" and one has to use other words instaead.
I realise on the internet the same may happen and one has to do a "professor Joad" and I was trying to clarify my definition of the word.

I mention as you did not see my PS.

Regards.
James
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James
James
Jimc

Still off track I'm afraid.
" To whom much is given etc."
How do I know if much is given me or not.?
Take the queen for instance - and how much is given to her by accident of birth, and ,say, me, born in the rear end of Ireland also by accident of birth and lucky if you could get an education locally after 14 years of age,

She is told she is given much and much will be expected but nobody said a blind word about any of that to me.

So can I can conclude not much is given to me - have faith and trust in the lord - then sit back and enjoy the ride and all is forgiven.??

I hope you are right my friend - I have a few years left in me yet !!!
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jimc1
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James
May 28 2007, 01:44 PM
Jimc

Still off track I'm afraid.
" To whom much is given etc."
How do I know if much is given me or not.?
Take the queen for instance - and how much is given to her by accident of birth, and ,say, me, born in the rear end of Ireland also by accident of birth and lucky if you could get an education locally after 14 years of age,

She is told she is given much and much will be expected but nobody said a blind word about any of that to me.

So can I can conclude not much is given to me - have faith and trust in the lord - then sit back and enjoy the ride and all is forgiven.??

I hope you are right my friend - I have a few years left in me yet !!!


James-we are talking about spiritual riches not material or physical-so you think all you have to do is have faith and trust in the Lord-try it-very difficult for most and impossible for the rest
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jimc1
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James
May 28 2007, 02:39 AM
jimc1
May 27 2007, 11:59 PM
Rose of York
May 27 2007, 10:04 PM
jimc1
May 27 2007, 10:57 PM
Rose-being cryptic I left one word out[faith]-this glory will once more be ours through faith in the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ

Will there be no need for repentance? Will people who have done wicked things, and died unrepentant, relying on the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, have the glory of which you write?



Rose.....its best we refer to what jESUS has to say and not what you or I or anyone else-"they that be whole need not a Physician"-"Physician heal thysely"-"I have come not to call the just but sinners to repentence"-"he who saves his life loses it-he who loses his life saves it"-"I have come not to judge or condemn the world but to save it"-"judge not lest ye be judged etc-btw as llong as they truly rely on the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ the answer must be yes-jimc

Sorry but I have lost the wavelength -- again!

Question from Rose - Will there be no need for repentance and unrepentant people will have the glory of which you write.

Reply from Jimc - Not my words, Jesus said "I have come not to call the just but sinners to repentance".etc.

Jmc conclusion - As long as they rely on grace and mercy of Jesus - the answer is yes .


I can't see the logic of the conclusion from the words of Jesus.

My conclusion would be something like - If you answer my call to repentance then you can rely on my grace and mercy.

But as I say I'm usually away on another wavelength,
My wife tells me that as well !!!



Ps. my definition of repentance to avoid confusion and for visitors. :-

To review one's lifestyle and try to change any bad choices or actions, whether habitual or occasional, which can harm or take away from the peace of one's self or others. To apologise where possible and be forgiving to one's self.
To become aware within of the harmful tendencies and confess them befoe God and apologise.
Then mercy, forgivness and grace will follow as I understand it. !!


James-definations of repentence are not repentence-Iwould not wish it on anyone but in a state of depression it is almost impossible to think straight or act straight etc and hence help is vital-so for just one of Christ"s sayings it is not the healthy but the sick who need a physician-here we may also ponder why are some depressed and not others or why some more depressed than others-here substitute sin and sinners-jimc
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Rose of York
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jimc1
May 28 2007, 11:05 PM
James-definations of repentence are not repentence-Iwould not wish it on anyone but in a state of depression it is almost impossible to think straight or act straight etc and hence help is vital-so for just one of Christ"s sayings it is not the healthy but the sick who need a physician-here we may also ponder why are some depressed and not others or why some more depressed than others-here substitute sin and sinners-jimc

jimc it is recognised depression involves deep, deep suffering, it is invisible, unlike having a limb that won't work that is seen by all. I can only say I hope God in his infinite mercy and goodness makes allowances for anything we do that is caused by illness.

Do some people get depression because they CARE and LOVE and therefore worry? Do some people never get depressed, or worried, or upset, because they don't care about anything or anybody? I wonder!

Anyway I think even physical pain can rob people of their decision making powers, and so can mental pain.
Keep the Faith!

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MickCook
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Jimc, Let's get back to your original reply to Rose:

Quote:
 
Rose-here is my cryptic reply-we are not made in the image and likeness of God-this belittles God[imho]-we are a fallen image and likeness - like a temple in ruins still showing forth the glory that once was man who was created in the image and likeness of God-this glory will once more be ours through the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ who will restore to this image and likeness-jimc


You wrote: "We are not made in the image and likeness of God - this belittles God..." this is not really true. I suspect you didn't think about this properly.
Gen: 1:26
Quote:
 
And God said let us make man in our image and after our likeness..."


This applies to man in both body and soul. It is because of the fallen nature of man that it became necessary for Jesus to die on the cross. But the image of God was not in any sense "remade" which is what you seem to be suggesting.

You wrote: "we are a fallen image and likeness - like a temple in ruins still showing forth the glory that once was man who was created in the image and likeness of God." This does not make sense. God made man, man did not make man, even when man fell into a state of sin - this is not man remaking himself. Your comments seem to be denying Creation, even if that is not your intention. Jesus made it perfectly clear that sin comes from within a person, it is an act of free will otherwise it would not be sin.

You wrote: "this glory will once more be ours through the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ who will restore to this image and likeness."

You have this back to front. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross and his resurrection has already restored man's dignity. This should be in the past tense, not future tense. Man has always been the image and likeness of God and the sacrifice of Christ, because of it's spiritual nature, reaches through all time.

It is a fundamental teaching of the Church that the mercy of God cannot be restricted and if man repents from the heart, God can forgive him: but this is in accord with the will of God. Salvation comes not through faith alone, but from the fruits of repentance, as Jesus Christ made perfectly clear. The Gospel stresses the need to love God with all one's heart, all one's mind, all one's soul and all one's strength. It also stressed the unconditional nature of love for one's neighbour. Such love is revealed through good works and those works that are the fruits of repentance. The meaning of this is revealed by the Holy Spirit present in all of us, as I'm sure you are aware.

I suspect that what you were trying to say is that Christ's sacrifice on the cross has restored human dignity to what God originally intended in Creation.
:)
Mick
The Cook Companies
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James
James
jimc1
May 28 2007, 10:05 PM



James-definations of repentence are not repentence-Iwould not wish it on anyone but in a state of depression it is almost impossible to think straight or act straight etc and hence help is vital-so for just one of Christ"s sayings it is not the healthy but the sick who need a physician-here we may also ponder why are some depressed and not others or why some more depressed than others-here substitute sin and sinners-jimc

But are you not playing a little cat and mouse game again Jimc ?

You argue the definition of a condition is not the condition - and I did not suggest it was - and then go on to give your definition of another condition - to which I can reply - that is only a definition of the effects of depression and not depression itself
and we go on "ad finitum".

Jim , you are still not getting yourself across to me.

Perhaps we are born to be on different wavelengths.

As I said, my wife says I always appear to be on another wavelength anyway and maybe she is right !!.

I have sort of given up here.

Let someone else discuss the posting as I'm even beginning to forget what it was all about now - was it "goodness" or "free will" or "repentance" or "salvation by faith alone" or " "talents in abundance" or "definitions of conditions not being the condition itself " ??

Mind bogling stuff !!!!
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James
James
jimc1,May 28 2007
09:53 PM
James,May 28 2007
01:44 PM
Jimc

.


James-we are talking about spiritual riches not material or physical-so you think all you have to do is have faith and trust in the Lord-try it-very difficult for most and impossible for the rest



Reply --
Jim

Now we might be getting on a wavelength.
Yes it is possible and possible for many.
But this has nothing to do with repentance.

When I was a younger man my wife died and I was left with three tiny children away from my own parents and relations.

Then you have an anger at God for allowing this to happen but a deeper "message coming through" that this will be alright in the end. Just trust in me - it will not be easy - you cannot even begin to see what you are going to do but it wil be alright.

So do I listen to the "message" and have trust and belief in what is being said by someone who had the just taken away a mother from small children or enter into a state of perpetual depression and anger and be of no use to anyone.

Thank God I choose the first = by free choice - and it was right.

Bur this has nothing to do with repentance as I said.

This is just a pure trust when the way is hidden or lostl
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jimc1
Unregistered

James
May 29 2007, 12:13 AM
jimc1
May 28 2007, 10:05 PM



James-definations of repentence are not repentence-Iwould not wish it on anyone but in a state of depression it is almost impossible to think straight or act straight etc and hence help is vital-so for just one of Christ"s sayings it is not the healthy but the sick who need a physician-here we may also ponder why are some depressed and not others or why some more depressed than others-here substitute sin and sinners-jimc

But are you not playing a little cat and mouse game again Jimc ?

You argue the definition of a condition is not the condition - and I did not suggest it was - and then go on to give your definition of another condition - to which I can reply - that is only a definition of the effects of depression and not depression itself
and we go on "ad finitum".

Jim , you are still not getting yourself across to me.

Perhaps we are born to be on different wavelengths.

As I said, my wife says I always appear to be on another wavelength anyway and maybe she is right !!.

I have sort of given up here.

Let someone else discuss the posting as I'm even beginning to forget what it was all about now - was it "goodness" or "free will" or "repentance" or "salvation by faith alone" or " "talents in abundance" or "definitions of conditions not being the condition itself " ??

Mind bogling stuff !!!!



No James no and yet yes James yes.....before giving up have you have considered that giving up is what its all about-get out of the way or more crudely go and get lost "for he who loses his life saves it -I have come to and for the lost sheep-does not a man who has a hundred sheep and one is lost leave the ninetynine and go looking for the one that is lost and when he find him put him on his shoulder and rejoicing bring him home-we cannot find God but on searching find He is searching for us and will find us if we give up and do not move[imho this is how I see it]-jimc
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jimc1
Unregistered

James
May 29 2007, 11:13 AM
jimc1,May 28 2007
09:53 PM
James,May 28 2007
01:44 PM
Jimc

.


James-we are talking about spiritual riches not material or physical-so you think all you have to do is have faith and trust in the Lord-try it-very difficult for most and impossible for the rest



Reply --
Jim

Now we might be getting on a wavelength.
Yes it is possible and possible for many.
But this has nothing to do with repentance.

When I was a younger man my wife died and I was left with three tiny children away from my own parents and relations.

Then you have an anger at God for allowing this to happen but a deeper "message coming through" that this will be alright in the end. Just trust in me - it will not be easy - you cannot even begin to see what you are going to do but it wil be alright.

So do I listen to the "message" and have trust and belief in what is being said by someone who had the just taken away a mother from small children or enter into a state of perpetual depression and anger and be of no use to anyone.

Thank God I choose the first = by free choice - and it was right.

Bur this has nothing to do with repentance as I said.

This is just a pure trust when the way is hidden or lostl


James-there is no question of choice here-you being you and everything that goes to make up who and what you are could not have made any other choice than the one you[supposedly]made-jimc
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jimc1
May 29 2007, 06:01 PM


James-there is no question of choice here-you being you and everything that goes to make up who and what you are could not have made any other choice than the one you[supposedly]made-jimc

That sounds suspiciously like predestination to me Jim. Would you like to explain more please?
You seem to have neatly side-stepped Mick's post above which answers the points you raise.
KatyA
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