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My Goodness !?; Goodness me !?
Topic Started: Sunday, 6. May 2007, 22:53 (1,705 Views)
Emee
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My view Jim: potentially yes, although all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, so now we need help in the form of Christ Jesus to get us there.

There is but ONE mediator between God and man. There is no other way - but that does not mean to say that God will not save the person who isn't aware of Him or who has only a very limited knowledge of Him (such as me!!).

Jim I love your posts - they make me think!! :D
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jimc1
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Emee
May 18 2007, 10:42 PM
My view Jim: potentially yes, although all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, so now we need help in the form of Christ Jesus to get us there.

There is but ONE mediator between God and man. There is no other way - but that does not mean to say that God will not save the person who isn't aware of Him or who has only a very limited knowledge of Him (such as me!!).

Jim I love your posts - they make me think!! :D



I thank you Emee.....but you are going to hate me when I tell you you and I and all others dont think,we mistakenly think we think wheras as in fact thoughts occur-for even He said "My sheep hear My voice"-His voice is the voice of truth-let us listen to the thoughts lest they occur and we do not hear-jimc
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PJD


That's rather like relying on locutions Jim.

Those of us who don't get them [or if you like don't hear them] have to rely on reason. The intellect is part of our creation and it has been given to us to use - just like you use in when you post (double-smile).

PJD
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James
James
Bit of a leading question Jimc1. !!!
What do you mean by goodness of our own to qualify for heaven.?
Is this a goodness with direct entry into heaven on it's own merit alone ?
I don't think so, or why Christ ?
Goodness yes but not that great surely !!!
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jimc1
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PJD
May 19 2007, 06:51 PM
That's rather like relying on locutions Jim.

Those of us who don't get them [or if you like don't hear them] have to rely on reason. The intellect is part of our creation and it has been given to us to use - just like you use in when you post (double-smile).

PJD


PJD....The problem is our intellects being part of our total makeup is faulty and this is what we are told,should also have observed and concluded as unreliable or at least not as reliable as the Word of God[The Bible]-we may if we insist.persist in accepting and calling this reason but God, via scriptures,says "my thoughts are higher than your thoughts""-jimc
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jimc1
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jimc1
May 18 2007, 08:21 PM
tomais
May 18 2007, 07:07 PM
No No not another introspective cul de sac!
Welcome all the pseudo analysts fresh from higher leaving modern studies, on their way to Westminster politics



None need get upset if they dont know the answer -just have a guess like PJD-jimc



The answer is in the Bible-its just a simple case of seek and ye shall find-for the Bible says "do you not know,have ye not read,have you not been told there is none good other than God and in and through Christ we put on the white wedding garment that gains our entrance-even our very best and most expensive suit is not good enough-jimc
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MickCook
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jimc1
May 18 2007, 11:49 AM
Do we really have any goodness of our own that will qualify us for heaven !?-jimc

The goodness that is not born of God, but rather of the free-will of the individual and expressed as love for God.


:)
Mick
The Cook Companies
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jimc1
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MickCook
May 20 2007, 01:34 AM
jimc1
May 18 2007, 11:49 AM
Do we really have any goodness of our own that will qualify us for heaven !?-jimc

The goodness that is not born of God, but rather of the free-will of the individual and expressed as love for God.



How many more times does it need pointing out that part of our malady is our faulty ego etc as a result of The Fall to even claim that we have freewill when it is obvious that we have not-St.Paul observed this whilst we refuse and fail to do so-see Rmns.7:14-24-jimc
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Emee
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Ah Jim! But remember "Man is free to choose..."
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jimc1
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Emee
May 20 2007, 09:53 PM
Ah Jim! But remember "Man is free to choose..."



are you sure now Emee or is just another pretty soap bubble or balloon that will burst-do we choose or are we chosen-we definately do not choose as far as I have ascertained and this is obvious but most things have been complicated by complicated people-jimc
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Rose of York
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jimc1
May 20 2007, 11:05 PM
but most things have been complicated by complicated people-jimc

jim, you complicate things!
Keep the Faith!

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jimc1
May 20 2007, 10:46 PM

How many more times does it need pointing out  that part of our malady is our faulty ego etc as a result of The Fall to even claim that we have freewill when it is obvious that we have not-St.Paul observed this whilst we refuse and fail to do so-see Rmns.7:14-24-jimc

For those not having a bible handy
Quote:
 
DOUAY-RHEIMS

7:13 Was that then which is good, made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it may appear sin, by that which is good, wrought death in me; that sin, by the commandment, might become sinful above measure.
7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do.
7:16 If then I do that which I will not, I consent to the law, that it is good.
7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:18 For I know that there dwelleth not in me, that is to say, in my flesh, that which is good. For to will, is present with me; but to accomplish that which is good, I find not.
7:19 For the good which I will, I do not; but the evil which I will not, that I do.
7:20 Now if I do that which I will not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:21 I find then a law, that when I have a will to do good, evil is present with me.
7:22 For I am delighted with the law of God, according to the inward man:
7:23 But I see another law in my members, fighting against the law of my mind, and captivating me in the law of sin, that is in my members.
7:24 Unhappy man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
7:25 The grace of God, by Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin.

Quote:
 
English Standard Version

13Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
   
21So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

I've also included verses 13 and 25, otherwise the passage is incomplete.
KatyA

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Quicunque vult

Anything good that we do comes from God – we are co-operating with God’s plan. Anything sinful is against the will of God and is our responsibility. To the extent that He gave us free will, He accepts the consequence that we may (and indeed do) act very wickedly, but that is not to say that He willed those things.

QV
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James
James
I think you are leading us on Jimc.
Is free will not relative to something (an act for instance) and you have not defined the other side of the coin so to speak.

Example = a prisoner cannot choose to go for a walk on the moors at 7am each morning,
A local resident can and can exercise free will to choose whether to do so or not.


I cannot fly so cannot exercise free will to flap my arms and go because I have no free will relative to that act.

etc. etc. and etc.
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jimc1
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Rose of York
May 20 2007, 10:13 PM
jimc1
May 20 2007, 11:05 PM
but most  things have been complicated by complicated people-jimc

jim, you complicate things!


So lets see just the majors in our lives-did we choose to be male or female,dark skin or fair-ugly or handsome/beautiful-brainy or not so brainy-tall or short-sickly or healthy-able or disabled etc-did we choose our family,relatives-the date and time of our birth-the country of our birth etc to mention just a few of the major events-not forgetting our death-jimc1
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