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The Priest-most Important Person In The Parish?; Two tier laity?
Topic Started: Wednesday, 11. October 2006, 23:24 (1,520 Views)
Rose of York
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Gerard
May 15 2007, 12:12 PM
Rose,

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Gerry can you name a parish in The United Kingdom that does not have a parish priest?


This from the Diocese of Rochester:

Gerry, the Diocese of Rochester is not in the UK.

However we do have church communities in this country in a similar situation to those mentioned on the Rochester site, ie with no resident priest.

I live in such a parish. A parish a few miles away had and for all I know, still has, lay administrators. Both those parishes have parish priests, each one shared with other parishes. He is the one who, ultimately, bears responsibility, in all matters, spiritual and civil. He is the only one who can offer Mass, administer the Sacrament of the Sick and the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and, in life threatening emergency, Confirmation.

Quote:
 
Are there models of effective parishes without priests?  There are.  In our own diocese, we have 13 parishes with pastoral administrators rather than full time resident priests.  These pastoral administrators function as pastors in all areas except the celebration of sacraments; however, Canon Law reserves the title of “pastor” to priests.  By all accounts, these parishes are vital and alive.  A priest is assigned as sacramental minister to celebrate the sacraments for such a community.


I would be interested to know what administrators are able do Catholic parishes, that ministers cannot do in non Catholic communities.

We are Catholics, members of the One True Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, ordained by Jesus Christ, and our priests act on behalf of Christ, when they offer Mass. That is what makes us so special.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Rose,

Ha, Rochester is not in the UK.
Ok but it is, nevertheless, a Roman Catholic Diocese.

I was at a talk on Saturday where the lecturer mentioned that the Catholic Church in Korea survived, cut off from outside support (which naturally means no priests internally either), for 400 years. It is only recently that Korea opened up to the outside world. Similar situations occurr around the world. The Church can, and does, survive without parish priests.

I am not recommending it, but neither am I a subscriber to the turn up, pay up and shut up approach to Catholicism.

Gerry

"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Gerard
May 15 2007, 04:03 PM
I am not recommending it, but neither am I a subscriber to the turn up, pay up and shut up approach to Catholicism.

Gerry

I am pleased to hear it. Neither am I, and I never was.
Keep the Faith!

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Timothy
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Quote:
 
that if one person in the parish is the most important, it is the parish priest. Without him there is no parish


Definitely, he keeps the show on the road! :rolleyes:

Quote:
 
It has never had a resident priest. It has always had a parish priest


For a long time we had a resident priest, but we didn't have a parish priest!!

In the Diocese of Westminster there are/were several parishes that have had a Parish Administrator. The role is the exact same while they are on the sanctuary, and its meant to be a temporary measure.
"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty."
"Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism."
Pope Benedict XVI
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Eve
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Parish Administrator? Which tier are they?

Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately?
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newminster
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Eve, I think you'll find that an Administrator is a priest with his own parish responsible for the spiritual welfare of another parish where a vacancy has arisen unexpectedly and until a new parish priest is appointed.
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Rose of York
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Gerard
May 15 2007, 12:12 PM
This from the Diocese of Rochester:

Quote:
 
These pastoral administrators function as pastors in all areas except the celebration of sacraments; however, Canon Law reserves the title of “pastor” to priests.  By all accounts, these parishes are vital and alive.  A priest is assigned as sacramental minister to celebrate the sacraments for such a community.

Gerry

newminster that is not the situation in The Diocese of Rochester.

Here, in the UK, my parish is administered from another parish, the administrator being parish priest.

So, we do not have two tiers. We have a pyramid.
Keep the Faith!

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Deleted User
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I agree that the parish priest is the most important person in the parish because he brings a cohesion and purpose that it is hard for anyone else to do. However, as mentioned in other threads, i think we should look closely at his historic role including all his role according to Canon Law and where possible re-draw them to substitute a more open model of parish organisation for non-spiritual matters.

John
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Rose of York
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John Sweeney
May 15 2007, 09:12 PM
i think we should look closely at his historic role including all his role according to Canon Law and where possible re-draw them to substitute a more open model of parish organisation for non-spiritual matters.

John

John you would have a wee problem. You would need The Pope's permission. :D
Keep the Faith!

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jimc1
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Gerard
May 15 2007, 09:52 AM
Rose of York
May 14 2007, 09:52 PM
I have a strange opinion, with which some people disagree, that if one person in the parish is the most important, it is the parish priest.


Would that be on a worldly level or a spiritual level ?

Quote:
 
Without him there is no parish.


Now that I will disagree with. It is certainly possible to have a parish without a parish priest. We have examples even in this country.

Gerry



not just in the Parish but in the Church ur the most important person-jimc
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Rose of York
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Timothy
May 15 2007, 04:59 PM
Quote:
 


In the Diocese of Westminster there are/were several parishes that have had a Parish Administrator. The role is the exact same while they are on the sanctuary, and its meant to be a temporary measure.

Are they clergy or laity? If laity what is their role in the sanctuary?

If they are clergy the role in the sanctuary is the same, in whatever church they are at any given time.
Keep the Faith!

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Deleted User
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Gerard
May 15 2007, 10:52 AM


Now that I will disagree with. It is certainly possible to have a parish without a parish priest. We have examples even in this country.

Gerry

The following extracts from the Code of Canon Law would indicate otherwise,starting with the definition of "parish"

Can. 515 §1. A parish is a certain community of the Christian faithful stably constituted in a particular church, whose pastoral care is entrusted to a pastor (parochus) as its proper pastor (pastor) under the authority of the diocesan bishop.

§2. When certain communities cannot be erected as parishes or quasi-parishes, the diocesan bishop is to provide for their pastoral care in another way.

Can. 517 §1. When circumstances require it, the pastoral care of a parish or of different parishes together can be entrusted to several priests in solidum, with the requirement, however, that in exercising pastoral care one of them must be the moderator, namely, the one who is to direct the joint action and to answer for it to the bishop.

§2. If, because of a lack of priests, the diocesan bishop has decided that participation in the exercise of the pastoral care of a parish is to be entrusted to a deacon, to another person who is not a priest, or to a community of persons, he is to appoint some priest who, provided with the powers and faculties of a pastor, is to direct the pastoral care.

Can. 519 The pastor (parochus) is the proper pastor (pastor) of the parish entrusted to him, exercising the pastoral care of the community committed to him under the authority of the diocesan bishop in whose ministry of Christ he has been called to share, so that for that same community he carries out the functions of teaching, sanctifying, and governing, also with the cooperation of other presbyters or deacons and with the assistance of lay members of the Christian faithful, according to the norm of law.

KatyA
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Timothy
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Quote:
 
Are they clergy or laity? If laity what is their role in the sanctuary?

If they are clergy the role in the sanctuary is the same, in whatever church they are at any given time.


They are clergy, they are a Parish Priest in all but name.

I know their role on the sanctuary is the same, that was my point, the only difference to them and a parish priest is once they are off the sanctuary!
"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty."
"Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism."
Pope Benedict XVI
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Alan
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I have always understood that where a Priest is "The Administrator" that the Bishop happens to be the PP and Titular head of the Parish.

In the pat it was normal for Cathedral Churches to have an Administrator. Also I have known other Churches to have an Administrator.

As I understand it Married Priests (formally Anglican Clergy) are prohibited from being PP's but are allowed to be Administrators with, usually, the Dean being PP on instructions from the Bishop..

God Bless all who visit this forum,

Alan.

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Timothy
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Quote:
 
As I understand it Married Priests (formally Anglican Clergy) are prohibited from being PP's but are allowed to be Administrators with, usually, the Dean being PP on instructions from the Bishop..


Yes that is also my understanding.
"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty."
"Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism."
Pope Benedict XVI
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