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| Glasgow Trial; Priest's role | |
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| Topic Started: Saturday, 5. May 2007, 20:51 (1,361 Views) | |
| Eve | Monday, 7. May 2007, 21:51 Post #16 |
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Former Admin/Moderator
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Thank you John for your consideration. I see no harm in discussing general matters of accountability, to parishioners, clergy and other local people, whilst we wait for the sentencing hearing. |
| Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately? | |
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| Timothy | Monday, 7. May 2007, 23:44 Post #17 |
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I agree, but it is an opinion of many people in many parishes, and that view has to be challenged. The fact that a parish priest requires "an assurance" rather than can trust his parishioners is a major change in the last decade or so, and it is something that many people are wary of. Obviously the need to gain "an assurance" is vital to prevent a situation where child abuse can occur, however many abuses have been committed by people who if a Police check had been carried out it would have granted them the "all clear" therefore it shouldn't be in any way seen as the only way of preventing abuse, which I feel it is in many cases.
How should be treat alcoholic Priests? |
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"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty." "Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism." Pope Benedict XVI | |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 00:01 Post #18 |
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Administrator
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Our role is to treat any alcoholic, priest or lay, with love and respect. They are ill. It is for a priest's superior to decide whether the priest is functioning well enough to continue ministering. If the bishop or abbot does not know, he can do nothing. In pracise, Catholics tend to bemoan the fact that the priest has a drink problem. Few of us would do anything about it. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Timothy | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 00:09 Post #19 |
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Many of us believe that Priests are entitled to privacy, and it is only those closest to the Priest, those whom know him and see him the most that can see if he has a drink problem. A one of encounter with a drunk Priest though I'm sure unusual, worrying or perhaps slightly amusing couldn't lead anyone to the judgement that they are an alcoholic that needs help. |
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"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty." "Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism." Pope Benedict XVI | |
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| Jamie | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 13:46 Post #20 |
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Now that the trial is over there is no harm in discussing how this priest - or indeed any other - could have remained in post with this sort of track record. Could the answer simply be that the shortage of priests is now SO grave (average age of priests is said to be around 60) that any sort of priest is better than none. And if so what is being done by the hierarchy to address the problem? |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 14:11 Post #21 |
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It would lead me to the conclusion that the parish and parishioners might need help. Having one too many occasionally is vastly different from being absolutely blotto, on a regular basis. I would take the same attitude to a doctor employed by a "Doctor on call" agency. At no time of day or night can a priest in a one-priest parish consider himself off duty. What if he drove out to a sick call, over the limit? Would he be sure of getting there unscathed? He could cause an accident or he could be pulled in, breathalysed and taken to a police station. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 14:23 Post #22 |
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No. I would rather have no priest at all, than a priest who: Abuses parishioners Brings the church into dispute. Such a priest will lose the church a lot of members. He will not be a good role model for boys and young men. What can the bishops do about the problem? Prune the tree of dead wood. Make it abundantly clear to clergy that all complaints will be dealt with, and they do not necessarily have "job security" for life, irrespective of behaviour. Any priest who behaves badly safe in the knowledge that his bishop cannot afford to sack him, is guilty of moral blackmail. Transfer full time priest chaplains from secular public schools to parish work. Harrow and Eton have their own Catholic priests. How many more? Ask the priest who offers weekly Sunday Mass privately for the Blair family if he would mind, awfully, driving out to a parish whose priest is in hospital, and offer Sunday Mass for the working classes. The Blair family have private Mass because, for security reasons, Mrs Blair cannot risk attending church. Rubbish! She appears in court rooms, and goes on lecture tours.. Ban clergy from wasting their precious time producing Diocesan Year Books, being Diocesan webmasters, and dabbling in professional work for which they are not equipped. That would release some man hours. Cut down on the meetings at which priests are expected to consult committees about what colour the new presbytery door knob should be. Cut down on the number of Masses in inner London. I read an article about the churches in and near Oxford Street, London. Half a dozen on a stretch of road less than a mile wrong. Transfer the priests of those churches to areas where they are needed. We are not short of priests. They are not effectively deployed. Oh, an afterthought. Find out why so few men are willing to become Catholic priests. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Em. | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 14:26 Post #23 |
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Rose, I agree with you wholeheartedly. |
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Divine Mercy | |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 14:29 Post #24 |
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Advice received today, from our journalist friend:
So, I suggest we stick to the facts already in the public domain - newspapers, TV etc. If any forum members have "inside knowledge" of other, as yet unreported, failings on the part of Father Nugent, please don't gossip on here. I don't fancy being up in court for permitting libel. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| tomais | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 14:37 Post #25 |
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Found guilty of contempt this am; a months community service. Bishop Conti has again apologised via the SCMO for everything; SCMO e-mail out earlier on. Tomais |
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| tomais | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 14:43 Post #26 |
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A wee ad on Eve; care when dealing with court cases and publications; Scots law can differ considerably from English; Scottish press may- repeat may print certain items which would be contempt in England; however this rarely happens.Caution is always a watch word- could save a lot of loot in a bewigged environment For an " expert" legal and Catholic opinion se Matrix in London should you ever require further advice. A journalist stand up in court as an expert legal witness would need ear plugs agin the ensuing laughter Tomais |
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| Timothy | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 16:26 Post #27 |
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The vast majority of parishes are now a one-priest parish, basically you are saying that a priest is on duty 24-7, while in way we accept that, it is a huge pressure on a priest, and it suggests he cannot ever have a drink, he cannot go away for a day or so etc. If we are to encourage people to become priests we have to make the priesthood a vocation not a sentence. |
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"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty." "Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism." Pope Benedict XVI | |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 16:41 Post #28 |
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Tim its a tough life being on duty 24 hours a day, seven days a week, like a lot of people are (some carers, for instance). We have forum members in that situation. Young men used to go to Douai, become priests, then get themselves smuggled into this country so they could risk execution for the sake of enabling people to have Mass and the Sacraments. Missionaries get murdered, perhaps this week or next week. Sacrifice and priesthood go nicely together. Nobody is denying any priest the opportunity to have a moderate amount of drink at home or in a pub. There are vehicles, called taxis, and a priest could have a rota of volunteers who would drive him if need be. There is no harm in a priest phoning a trusted parishioner and saying "I have to go out. Will you take me please? I had three glasses of wine this evening, so I must not risk driving". Having an enjoyable glass is one thing. Getting paralytic is another. A priest who makes a habit of getting blown out of his mind with booze, staggering around, and insulting parishioners, should be suspended, whatever the resultant inconvenience. Until he modifies his behaviour, he could do more harm than good. Only he can make the decision to seek and accept help. If so many people had not been averse to opening their mouths about problem priests, and insisting on effective action, a lot of abuse would have been pre-empted. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Timothy | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 17:20 Post #29 |
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Makes perfect sense in these occasions, but you gave the impression earlier that they had to be as a Doctor is "on call 24-7."
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"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty." "Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism." Pope Benedict XVI | |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 18:37 Post #30 |
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NHS GPs are not on 24 hour call. They use deputising services. Rural priests have a "buddy system". We are told which priest to call, and given his phone number, for our priest's weekly day off, days away on Diocesan duties, holidays, and any other occasion when he is not available. We know which priest we should call if neither of those two are available. My priest told me emergency sick calls in the night, or late in the evening, are rare. Most people die in hospital. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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3:50 PM Jul 11