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Gospel Puzzles?; [Revised Catholic Edition]
Topic Started: Tuesday, 24. April 2007, 22:25 (1,416 Views)
maklavan

Derekap
Oct 1 2007, 08:54 PM
Further to my suggestion that people in Heaven may already have experienced the Resurrection of their bodies, I have since thought that perhaps to the eyes of the Apostles on earth Moses and Elias appeared in their bodies because otherwise the Apostles would not recognise or even see them.

This has always intrigued me. At the Transfiguration,for example, there was no way that the Apostles could recognise Moses and Elijah, who lived many centuries before,and left no pictorial images.It appears likely that the Holy Spirit infused them with an awareness of who was present.
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PJD

Yes Mac I am inclined to go along with what you say - infusion. Still a puzzle though.

Another thought - did the prophets actually recognised Jesus as the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity i.e. Almighty God Himself? Would that recognition have paralysed them in the ordinary way - even though they had died ages ago?

Only asking.

PJD
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Deleted User
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This is such a simple point that it may not even qualify as a puzzle. It is topical though. At the end of the rich man /Lazarus Gospel on Sunday the rich man pleads with Abraham to let Lazarus go to his brothers to warn them as they would surely believe someone who had risen from the dead. Abraham replies that if they don't listen to Moses and the prophets they will not listen to one who is raised from the dead. To be only slightly facetious, does that not shoot the whole project stone-dead then?

John
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PJD


It's a bit late John so I am probably being thick - but don't quite understand what you are saying.

PJD
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Deacon Robert
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John,
If I understand what you are saying, it is why bother with Jesus dying and being ressurected, if no one will listen. My thoughts are that there were observant Jews who did listen and those who reject the teachings. We have christians who also listen and follow, and those who do not. This can play into the debate of salvation "for all" salvation "for many".
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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Deleted User
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Yes Deacon Robert that is my point, thanks.
John
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PJD

Thanks Deacon, yes John I do get what you were saying now - I mean by reference to recognition.

Yet - just to be awkward you know, whilst I think that that can be construed from the passage, I don't think it answers the puzzle as the puzzle was put.

But there you go old son.

PJD
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PJD

Reading through the Gospel of St. John - I am trying to make it a habit of reading the Gospel a little bit day by day if possible; as instructed! - and bearing in mind the God Particle topic. Here is a passage I have just passed through. I thought it relevant at this time to paste it on here. And Rose to be consistent hopefully you will agree it is in the right topic section..............

GOSPEL according to John 6
15 Jesus therefore, when he knew that they would come to take him by force, and make him king, fled again into the mountain himself alone.
16 And when evening was come, his disciples went down to the sea.
17 And when they had gone up into a ship, they went over the sea to Capharnaum; and it was now dark, and Jesus was not come unto them.
18 And the sea arose, by reason of a great wind that blew.
19 When they had rowed therefore about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking upon the sea, and drawing nigh to the ship, and they were afraid.
20 But he saith to them: It is I; be not afraid.
21 They were willing [*] therefore to take him into the ship; and presently [*] the ship was at the land to which they were going.
22 The next day, the multitude that stood on the other side of the sea, saw that there was no other ship there but one, and that Jesus had not entered into the ship with his disciples, but that his disciples were gone away alone.
23 But other ships came in from Tiberias; nigh unto the place where they had eaten the bread, the Lord giving thanks.
24 When therefore the multitude saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they took shipping, and came to Capharnaum, seeking for Jesus.
25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him: Rabbi, when camest thou hither?
26 Jesus answered them, and said: Amen, amen I say to you, you seek me, not because you have seen miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves, and were filled.**

[*Revised Standard Catholic Version reads: Then they were glad to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going”

** It is worth noting that The King James Commentary by Henry Matthew – re line 26 says “ Instead of answering the inquiry how he came there, Jesus blamed their asking.


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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
PJD
Sunday, 1. August 2010, 08:18
Reading through the Gospel of St. John -...

21 They were willing [*] therefore to take him into the ship; and presently [*] the ship was at the land to which they were going.
...
[*Revised Standard Catholic Version reads: Then they were glad to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going”
For what it's worth, the Vulgate says:

... voluerunt ergo accipere eum in navi et statim fuit navis ad terram quam ibant ...
S.A.G.

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PJD

Please translate that Clare.

PJD
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Clare
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PJD
Sunday, 1. August 2010, 17:46
Please translate that Clare.
I don't do Latin, PJD.

Something about a ship and the land, and there's a "therefore" in there too. I reckon it says something like (ahem!):

They were willing therefore to take him into the ship; and presently the ship was at the land to which they were going.

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Rose of York
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Clare if you are going to post the Latin, you can get the English by googling the text. There is a website with the Latin alongside the Douay translation.
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Rose of York
Sunday, 1. August 2010, 21:11
Clare if you are going to post the Latin, you can get the English by googling the text. There is a website with the Latin alongside the Douay translation.
Yes, I know, Rose, that's how I got the Latin! The Douay website also has the Vulgate.
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Rose of York
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OK Clare, I suggest you edit your post above, by adding the English translation.

Lets avoid a diversion from the discussion opened by PJD.

:topicbaack:
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Rose of York
Sunday, 1. August 2010, 21:57
OK Clare, I suggest you edit your post above, by adding the English translation.
But Rose, PJD already gave the English translation. Then I gave the Latin. Then he asked for the English, which he had already given, so I gave it again!
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