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Suicide or self sacrifice?
Topic Started: Monday, 23. April 2007, 20:25 (394 Views)
K.T.B.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that suicide is a grave offence against the just love of God, of self, and of neighbour.

It also states that those who are psychologically disturbed or who are experiencing grave fear may have diminished responsibility.
I feel that the cicumstances of the woman in Jamie's book may put her into the category of "experiencing grave fear".
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Katy B
Apr 24 2007, 12:01 PM
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that suicide is a grave offence against the just love of God, of self, and of neighbour.

It also states that those who are psychologically disturbed or who are experiencing grave fear may have diminished responsibility.
I feel that the cicumstances of the woman in Jamie's book may put her into the category of "experiencing grave fear".

This seems to sum up my view also.
It is (objectively) a sin to take one's own life. If one starts to propose that there are occasions when it is not - then I think it's a slippery slope.
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Clare
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Rose of York
Apr 24 2007, 10:33 AM
Church teaching is not just a quick reference or recipe book. 

There have been soldiers who deliberately lay down on hand grenades to save their comrades.  That was suicide.   I salute their courage and generosity.

No, Rose, I think that's quite different.

They weren't deliberately killing themselves to save their friends. They didn't put the grenades there for a start! They were saving their friends by jumping on a thing that would kill their friends and in the process killing themselves, except it could be argued that they were killed by whoever put the grenades there! It might come under "double effect" too. Anyway, the direct intention was not the killing of self but the saving of others, and the killing of self could be seen as an unintended, though inevitable, side-effect.

Whereas the lady in the story hanged herself to avoid being tortured and grassing her friends up. No double effect. She took independent, and pre-meditated, action to take her own life.

It's understandable and forgivable, and in her shoes I may find myself taking similar action. But I won't pretend it's heroic.

It was objectively wrong. IMHO!

Clare.
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Derekap
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Whenever an individual is faced with a moral dilemma there can be conflicting emotions, pressures, duties and responsbilities. It is easy to say it is wrong to steal a bottle of milk and one must not but if you have very hungry children it can easily cloud your judgement. And there are many situations which are much more complicated. Many people are faced with the choice of two "Evils" from time to time - whichever decision they make they may be wrong.

There are occasions when I have had to make a choice, I hope and pray I made the right one.
Derekap
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Clare
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Derekap
Apr 24 2007, 04:33 PM
Whenever an individual is faced with a moral dilemma there can be conflicting emotions, pressures, duties and responsbilities. It is easy to say it is wrong to steal a bottle of milk and one must not but if you have very hungry children it can easily cloud your judgement. And there are many situations which are much more complicated. Many people are faced with the choice of two "Evils" from time to time - whichever decision they make they may be wrong.

There are occasions when I have had to make a choice, I hope and pray I made the right one.

Yes, I know Derek.

I did say that I in her situation may make a similarly wrong decision!

But, as ever, I am writing about what is objectively wrong.

Just because you or I might do something under pressure does not make it objectively right!

Clare.
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PJD

Difficult one that; on balance I would go along with Clare.

Coerced? Might lead to an unbalanced state of mind - in which case not suicide?

PJD
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medjugorje vin


Jesus Christ said:"No greater love does man have than that he give up his life for a friend."

There is baptism by water,baptism by fire,baptism by blood.

A man walks into a bank with the premeditated decision of robbing it and terrorising all who are in there.He gets nobbled by the police and is surrounded,he knows he is going to do a minimum 20yrs,seeing no way out he turns the gun on himself and kills himself.Is that suicide?

A man who was abused as a child,has lost all that is dear to him,feels isolated and alone and has endured this mental torture for many years,feels he can no longer cope and takes his life.Is that suicide?

A man during a heavy storm sees that some one is in distress,he feels compelled to help them instinctively,he heads out into the heavy storm knowing that he may be killed.He saves the person but is washed away in the torrent and is killed.Is that suicide?

Whatever answer you come up with,it is based on judgement and judgement alone should be left to God.Suicide victims ,while never condoning the act ,as this would only give rise to the athiests and secularists for there agenda, should be given in death the same respect as others and also bearing in mind that there is a soul to consider here also.

It is only by the "grace" of God that you breath your next breath.

Praised be Jesus and Mary ALWAYS

Medjugorje Vin
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newminster
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Quote:
 
A man walks into a bank with the premeditated decision of robbing it and terrorising all who are in there.He gets nobbled by the police and is surrounded,he knows he is going to do a minimum 20yrs,seeing no way out he turns the gun on himself and kills himself.Is that suicide?
Yes. He hopes to avoid the unpleasant consequences to him of his own criminal action.
Quote:
 
A man who was abused as a child,has lost all that is dear to him,feels isolated and alone and has endured this mental torture for many years,feels he can no longer cope and takes his life.Is that suicide?
Prima facie, yes. The Church will argue that he should put his trust in a forgiving God though God may well be forgiving of the act of suicide itself to the extent that the 'mental torture' affected his ability to make a rational decision, always bearing in mind that he put himself in that position with the original immoral act. I'd hate to have to call this one if St Peter asked me to stand in for him for half-an-hour! :huh:
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A man during a heavy storm sees that some one is in distress,he feels compelled to help them instinctively,he heads out into the heavy storm knowing that he may be killed.He saves the person but is washed away in the torrent and is killed.Is that suicide?
No. This is an act of loving self-sacrifice.

Next question. :)
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