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Reordering!
Topic Started: Wednesday, 11. April 2007, 20:01 (990 Views)
Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
nelly k
Apr 12 2007, 07:49 PM
... there are those on this Forum who have a much more inclusive manner regarding this matter, who would not roll there eyes or looked shocked s at her lack of understanding or how on earth she thought that , but would hold out a hand and give some direction.

I wasn't ridiculing her, Nelly. I wasn't rolling my eyes.

This is the emoticon for rolling one's eyes: :rolleyes:

I was blinking, thus: :blink:

Because I didn't understand the point!

That's all!

Quote:
 
This then goes back to Gerry`s comments and people not participating,how can they if they dont understand it , are afraid to admit this, in case ridiculed. nelly


Funnily enough, I see most of the ridiculing coming from the other direction. And it's charges of "elitism" etc, that provoke exasperated responses from me.

Clare.
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Alan
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Because it made me so angry it has taken me a long time to calm down and put my thoughts together concerning this poll and the video clip.

I do not know the status of the people giving the Altar its “makeover” but what they did was totally in contravention of Church Law.

The idea of creating a backdrop for Candles and a “Tabernacle” meant that they covered the Altar Stone. This is sited in the centre of the Altar and contains Sacred Relics. This is where the Priest kisses the Altar at the beginning and end of Mass. It is also the area of the Altar where the Chalice and Ciboria are placed during Mass.

I did not observe those dressing the Altar place a temporary Altar Stone at the Front of the Altar Table.

Then to place a “box” to represent the Tabernacle thus drawing the congregation’s eye away from the Real Presence in the Church’s Tabernacle I find quite distressing.

To add insult to injury a Crucifix is placed on top of the box, Once again drawing attention away from the Churches own Crucifix. The Churches own Crucifix would have, normally, been donated by the Bishop who opened the Church.

What was the need for the front board? In what way was it supposed to enhance the Altar Table?

Now I am the first to agree that some of the re-ordering of our older churches has been dreadful. It is terrible when excellent architecture is compromised. Removal of Altar Rails to stop people kneeling to receive Holy Communion is one example.

Now I well remember attending Solemn High Mass and losing myself in the sights, sounds and deep Solemnity of the occasions. They were truly awe inspiring. Yes, very Prayerful occasions. However, it is Prayerful in a different sense. That is because of the Latin used most people “listened or prayed their “Beads.

That was then and the Liturgies were right for the time.

The idea of “vandalising” a modern Church Sanctuary because some people think what was celebrated then was more “appropriate” I find distinctly uncomfortable.

I also get quite distressed when people use expression implying “snobbery or elitism” on one side or the other. The purpose for us all is to have Mass suitable to the Praise and Glory of God.

There is now no possibility of reversing trends so I would suggest it is time for all to move forward.
The video opening this discussion made me very angry and I was appalled by its content.


God Bless all who visit this forum,

Alan.

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Alan
Apr 12 2007, 08:05 PM
I do not know the status of the people giving the Altar its “makeover” but what they did was totally in contravention of Church Law.

Fraternity of St Peter, by the looks of it. Perfectly legit!

I'm sure it wasn't a bunch of renegades just marching into the church uninvited!

Clare.
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Deleted User
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I don't think the "after" version was the norm before the reforms. I do not remember our altars being so cluttered and in such bad taste. I think what has happened is that some clerics too young to remember things as they really were have created a "Third Way" which is more extreme than the reality.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Alan
Apr 12 2007, 08:05 PM
The idea of “vandalising” a modern Church Sanctuary because some people think what was celebrated then was more “appropriate” I find distinctly uncomfortable.

They were dressing the altar ready for the offering of a Tridentine Rite Mass. And they were "unvandalising" the sanctuary.

It's not uncommon for a bit of tweaking to be necessary when a church, which usually has New Rite Masses, is about to have a Tridentine Rite offered in it.

If you want to be really outraged, the temporary table altar at Everingham had to be moved into a side chapel, when the church was being used for a Latin Mass Society Mass!

Clare.
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nelly k

Alan, I feel very ticked off by you, and possibly you are right , and I need to take time to consider your point.

It was me who used the terms Elitism and snobbery and I am sorry Alan,but I get distressed to, when I belive that my Form of Worship and Praise is not Catholic or Catholic enough.

It would seem to me that not all Catholics would accept that my and many like me form of worship/Mass is suitable for the Praise and Glory of God.Maybe my interpretation is wrong?

I will encourage my 13 year old to read your post, as there is much in it that she should be aware of, nelly
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Alan
Apr 12 2007, 08:05 PM
The idea of creating a backdrop for Candles and a “Tabernacle” meant that they covered the Altar Stone. This is sited in the centre of the Altar and contains Sacred Relics. This is where the Priest kisses the Altar at the beginning and end of Mass. It is also the area of the Altar where the Chalice and Ciboria are placed during Mass.

I did not observe those dressing the Altar place a temporary Altar Stone at the Front of the Altar Table.

http://en.allexperts.com/e/a/al/altar.htm

Quote:
 
Altars in Roman Catholic churches

Roman Catholic churches distinguish two types of altar in canon law: fixed and portable.

Fixed altars may be on a single pedestal, four pillars or a box-like support. The mensa, or table tops, of these altars in the Roman Rite are made of a single piece of natural stone, most often marble. Beneath this mensa there may be placed the relics of saints, traditionally of martyrs and/or of the titular saint of the church (before Vatican II, all such altars had to have the relics of at least two saints, at least one of whom was a martyr, placed within -- this is now optional). The table is anointed with chrism during the ceremony of consecration (normally celebrated by a bishop), and the altar loses its consecration if it is moved, even momentarily.
...

S.A.G.

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Clare
Apr 12 2007, 08:17 PM
Alan
Apr 12 2007, 08:05 PM
I do not know the status of the people giving the Altar its “makeover” but what they did was totally in contravention of Church Law.

Fraternity of St Peter, by the looks of it. Perfectly legit!

I'm sure it wasn't a bunch of renegades just marching into the church uninvited!

Quote:
 
le Christ Rédempteur est la paroisse "Ecclesia Dei" de Bordeaux qui est dirigée par la Fssp en accord avec l'évêque du lieu.
La messe y est célébrée selon le rite dit de St Pie V selon le missel de 1962.
Tous les autres renseignements sont à découvrir sur le site de la paroisse.


Babelfish translation (therefore not brilliant!):
Quote:
 
Christ Redeemer is the parish "Ecclesia Dei" of Bordeaux which is directed by Fssp in agreement with the bishop of the place. The mass is celebrated there according to the rite known as of Black and white St V according to the missal of 1962. All the other information is to be discovered on the site of the parish.


http://www.dailymotion.com/CHRIST-REDEMPTEUR
S.A.G.

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Eve
Former Admin/Moderator
This discussion appears to have become confrontational.

I do not have the time to give a full explanation yet for locking it. I will, but at the moment have other things i must attend to. I hope to be back online later this evening.
Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately?
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Rose of York
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Administrator
I have posted little today, due to having been popped up with dental anaesthetic after surgery (not ordinary dental treatment) that lasted over an hour. It is gradually wearign off.

All I can say for the moment is:

Those photographs give the impression this is a forum aimed specifically at people who want to "push" Tridentine Mass. I will not lower myself to retaliate by posting photographs of New Rite Holy Mass.

Just in case visitors get the wrong impression, this is NOT a specifically "trad" forum. All who hold and follow the Catholic Faith are traditional catholics. On here we have a tradition of respecting each others' choice to attend whatever Mass they choose.

It is with great sadness that I see this forum has descended to such competitive and argumentative depths.
Keep the Faith!

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