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Reordering!
Topic Started: Wednesday, 11. April 2007, 20:01 (993 Views)
Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Jamie
Apr 12 2007, 08:19 AM
Derekap
Apr 11 2007, 09:28 PM


The second candle from the right on the back row was 2mm too far to the right.


Actually I think the whole lot was far too far to the Right.......

What a stupid comment. :rolleyes: I know someone who subscribes to The Tribune and who'd prefer "after" to "before"!

Clare.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
nelly k
Apr 12 2007, 09:11 AM
I just think it is a lot nonsence, sorry to be so uncharitable, Iam not convinced that reording the Altar will have any great impact once one walks out the door, with the same token I have no objections to those who desire such Altars....

I will admit to possibly having a chip on my shoulder and others can decide whether that is the case, but I am afraid I find much of the movement elitist in there atittude, hence there is a snobbery about it all

My Background is in Parishes that were never to affluent, all those flowers and the like... it does require finance

I also come from modern post 60`s build ,and our Altar was never that bare, the Tabernacle being in view behind the Altar a Crusifix on the Alter, I noted the very large Cross on the wall as well at the back of the Alter, agian something similar to my childhood Parish which I still go to from time to time... I have great memories from that Parish /Church, the small Side church is lovely... nelly

Nelly.

You keep trotting out this "elitist" charge.

It's nonsense!

That is what the Church was like, for everyone before the New Rite was introduced.

There's nothing elitist about exposing everyone, of every class, rich and poor, to beauty!

Quite often the poor and rich alike contributed!

IT IS NOT ELITIST. Such a ridiculous notion only came about once an impoverished set up was imposed on the masses!

You seem to have some difficulty grasping that what you consider weird and elitist was the norm a few decades ago! And therefore not elitist at all.

If you would just open your mind and attend one of these "elitist" Masses...

Clare.
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nelly k

Clare , you and I will just have to disagree...nelly
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nelly k

Clare, I dont think I said it was wierd... correct me if I am wrong...nelly
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
nelly k
Apr 12 2007, 10:05 AM
Clare, I dont think I said it was wierd... correct me if I am wrong...nelly

It's the impression that comes across whenever you write about the subject!

I am willing to agree to disagree, and I agree to continue disagreeing!

:P

Clare.
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nelly k

It was the Norm for people to go cap in hand to the Parish council when there was a lack of finance for such things as food, it was the Norm for people to end up in those dreadfull Poor House so on and so forth...nelly
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nelly k

It was the norm for only Men to be the housholders, hence easy for women and children to be on the streets... nelly
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Gerard

Quote:
 
You seem to have some difficulty grasping that what you consider weird and elitist was the norm a few decades ago! And therefore not elitist at all.


It was, and still is, elitist in the sense that the people dont participate. You will say they pray silently I say they dont really participate.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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nelly k

Clare not my intention to lead one to think that the vidio clip you gave as wierd, I dont think that , but I just dont accept that this form of worship would lead to better Catholisim when we leave the Church,
Unfortunatly this will be a subject that we will continue to disagree on, I think however we agree on some things... nelly
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Gerard
Apr 12 2007, 10:13 AM
Quote:
 
You seem to have some difficulty grasping that what you consider weird and elitist was the norm a few decades ago! And therefore not elitist at all.


It was, and still is, elitist in the sense that the people dont participate. You will say they pray silently I say they dont really participate.

Gerry

They do participate. Just not in the way charismatics think they should!

Praying privately is participation.

And even if they didn't participate, non-participation is not synonymous with elitism.

Clare.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
nelly k
Apr 12 2007, 10:08 AM
It was the Norm for people to go cap in hand to the Parish council when there was a lack of finance for such things as food, it was the Norm for people to end up in those dreadfull Poor House so on and so forth...nelly

All the more reason for beauty in worship. Or would you deny them that much?

I can't believe your comparing the normal hardships of the world with what was the normative, beautiful, worship of the Church!

Clare.
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nelly k

Clare I am comparing Norms, they change , and as Gerry has noted in his posts, the Old Norms of Worship were not without there problems, and there continues to be hardship for Catholics,
And to you it may be beauty in worship, but unfortunalty as Gerry indicates, it realy was beyond some, one size does not fit all, and please dont twist my words by implying I would deny something you regard as beautifull to others, I did not say the clip was weird, or not beautifull , but what I do say is that is no more better , nor do I think that it will bring one closer to God, I just think that the Chaple I grew up in , the converted Hut that I somtimes attend, does the job... or maybe you and those with the same mind set think that you are better Catholics than me.
Sorry Clare but some of the rules that go with the Old Rite, a minor one being the covering of the head, does not lead to me thinking that the Worship is therefore better... nelly
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Rose of York
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Clare
Apr 12 2007, 10:23 AM
nelly k
Apr 12 2007, 10:08 AM
It was the Norm for people to go cap in hand to the Parish council when there was a lack of finance for such things as food, it was the Norm for people to end up in those dreadfull Poor House so on and so forth...nelly

All the more reason for beauty in worship. Or would you deny them that much?

In my lifetime, parishioners were asked to contribute a day's pay towards specially commissioned mosaics from Italy. They are so big they completely cover the five wall panels behind the altar of a church with a very high roof. Some of those poor people would queue in the rain, waiting for the jumble sale to start, so they could buy a pair of second hand shoes for a child.

I wonder what God likes best, the beauty of a healthy child, or a work of art?
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
nelly k
Apr 12 2007, 10:39 AM
Clare I am comparing Norms, they change , and as Gerry has noted in his posts, the Old Norms of Worship were not without there problems, and there continues to be hardship for Catholics,
And to you it may be beauty in worship, but unfortunalty as Gerry indicates, it realy was beyond some, one size does not fit all,

Nelly,

I called it "the norm" because you were talking of "elitism".

Well, I don't see how something which was available to everyone, no charge, and which people of all classes attended could be classed as "elitist".

And sometimes one thing is objectively better than another. One size did fit all. For at least a millennium and a half!

And just because Gerry says something, doesn't make it any more authoritative than what is objectively true!

Clare.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Apr 12 2007, 10:45 AM
In my lifetime, parishioners were asked to contribute a day's pay towards specially commissioned mosaics from Italy.  They are so big they completely cover the five wall panels behind the altar of a church with a very high roof.  Some of those poor people would queue in the rain, waiting for the jumble sale to start, so they could buy a pair of second hand shoes for a child.

I wonder what God likes best, the beauty of a healthy child, or a work of art?

I'm not talking about that kind of thing.

I am talking about what can be afforded, by people who can afford it!

Just because the widow can only afford a mite, and that that is a great sacrifice for her, doesn't mean that a mite is good enough for the millionaire to part with!

Clare.
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