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Catechesis
Topic Started: Tuesday, 26. September 2006, 20:26 (1,768 Views)
MickCook
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Quote:
 
Apart from the fact that the little catechism is much easier to fit in one's pocket, we do not depend on sola scriptura. Scott Hahn writes:

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It goes on, "She has always maintained them, and continues to do so, together with Sacred Tradition as the supreme rule of Faith since, as inspired by God, and committed once and for all to writing, they impart the Word of God Himself without change." In other words, for the Catholic believer the Word of God alone is supreme. Recognize that we need to make it clear to the non-Catholic believers that we are bound by God's Word and God's Word alone. It's just that the Scriptures aren't the only source for God's Word, just as the Scriptures themselves declare.

We're going to look at 2 Thessalonians 2:15 in just a few moments. There Paul reminds the Thessalonian believers that they must hold fast to whatever the traditions are that the apostles have passed down either in writing or by word of mouth. So Scripture insists that the Scriptures are not the only source for God's Word; we have Sacred Tradition as well, oral tradition as vouched, as attested by the New Testament itself. The point that I just made a moment ago can be simply stated this way: We do not believe in Sola Scriptura, the Bible alone but we do believe in Solum Verbum Dei, the Word of God alone. It's just wrong to say, "The Word of God is found in the Bible alone." It's contrary to Scripture itself. 





Interesting. The following is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church regarding Tradition:
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83 The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus' teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. the first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church's Magisterium.
:)
Mick
The Cook Companies
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Derekap
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I have nothing against the old Penny Cathechism, it certainly was useful. But my religious lessons during the junior school days (ie up to 11 years of age) seemed to be mostly a repetition - and then a Sunday afternoon class with the curate in the presbytery was concentrated on it. Such classes were for the 11+ boys who had to attend a non-Catholic Grammar School as there was none locally. For a few days in the junior school we had a non-Catholic teacher because our regular was ill. She taught us the story of Joseph which much later was the subject of a famous musical. What a refreshing change it was. Of course time was given to preparation for our First Holy Communion and then Confirmation.

But somehow we never reached the last few pages of the Catechism in either class! And one of the Sunday classes was spent undoing counterfoils of raffle tickets and folding them up ready for occasion when the winners would be drawn.
Derekap
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Rose of York
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Gerard
Feb 12 2008, 09:14 AM
Well Rose I think you just made my point for me.

We are saved by grace through faith, not by works of the law.

(And that IS Catholic  !  :D )

Gerry

Gerry do you say we are saved, even if we fail to carry out good works?

Matthew 25
 
30* And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.' 31* "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32* Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34* Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35* for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' 40* And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' 41* Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 45 Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 46* And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Rose,

The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. Good works are a fruit of the grace and not the source of it. We cannot earn salvation.

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Gerry do you say we are saved, even if we fail to carry out good works?


It is not for me to say who is saved and who not. Only Jesus can do that. But I certainly say some are saved without doing good works. The worst sinner can repent and receive salvation on his deathbed - what good works did he do? What good works did the thief on the cross do? and he was promised paradise.

Remember I said if I continued I would be repeating myself? When I talked about rules leading people to try to get to heaven in their own strength this was what I was talking about. We cannot earn salvation. it is pure gift.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Gerard
Feb 12 2008, 07:09 PM
When I talked about rules leading people to try to get to heaven in their own strength this was what I was talking about. We cannot earn salvation. it is pure gift.

Gerry

Agreed, but Christ made it pretty clear we can earn damnation. Repentance does come into it, but nobody can afford to gamble on being genuinely repentant as death approaches.
Keep the Faith!

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James
James
Rose

I see it as the soul's condition in relation to God.
A soul close to God will do genuine good works by nature and these works are pleasing to God.
Take Mother Teresa as an admirable example.
Ourselves to a lesser degree - I would pray my intentions are pure.


However, take another whose soul is mercenary.
He can arrange to have somebody murdered for the sake of building up his empire.
Then stand in the front row of the church and sympathise with the widow and children and also be high profile at the graveside - as if one of the family.
He then insists on paying for all the funeral expenses, sees that the widow is financially well off for the rest of her days and puts all the children through education.
Been known to happen in certain quarters.
Good works certainly - but hardly pleasing to God, who can see inside the heart !!

James
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Deleted User
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According to the prefect of the Congregation for Clergy, Cardinal Cláudio Hummes,
the priest should be the premiere catechist of the parish, and catechists need the presence of the parish priest to be motivated.
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"Many parish priests don't accompany their catechists," said the cardinal. He said that the work of the priest is "to watch the fundamental orientation of the catechesis."

The cardinal said that a "unity between faith and life" is necessary, underlining that the finality of catechesis is "to open the heart and prepare it for a total cohesion with Jesus Christ."

The prelate gave several characteristics for the work of a catechist, which should be "a process of initiation into the life of faith." He said catechists foster "a life of faith in community," that catechesis is a "permanent process in faith education," and "the connection that leads to Jesus Christ."

Zenit

Wise words from the Cardinal

KatyA
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DeniseLawson
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Karin
Feb 25 2007, 10:17 PM
While I have been mentioning RCIA in some of the discussions on Anglicans, I'm wondering how many of us have actually been through an RCIA course?

Our parishes encourage cradle Catholics to attend one course - at least, as adults, to be updated on how the Church functions - what's new, what has changed, etc. We have done some surveys in the recent past about how many Catholics have actually added to their knowledge of the faith, either by additional catechism classes, courses at University or a local college. Surprisingly, most have not done anything more than when they were originally received as children. But if you asked about a course or something other than Bible Study groups, people might be more interested in attending if it were made more enticing, say held in a small group at someone's home or in the rectory (with cake and coffee afterward).

Many people have still held misconceptions about Catholics, our practices and traditions. The one about us not reading the Bible is especially outstanding to me. People still feel we are like the Church was during the Spanish Inquisition. I think people also leave the Church because of something they are NOT doing - and that's being involved with their own faith. You know I have always said, complacency kills and to this extent, I feel it does. It kills the desire to continue in the Faith - to make it fresh and renewed. We get out of it what we put into it and if we simply come to Mass and just go through the motions because it's what we have 'always done', then people will fall away and look to be 'entertained' in another denomination. If you want entertainment - go to a concert, not to Church. The music in Church is meant to complement the Mass, to enhance it, not to be a masterpiece of theatre. In this day of immediate gratification, I don't think a lot of people can even sit still for an hour, let alone understand the different parts of the Holy Mass and actually come away understanding what they have experienced.

I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks about this subject. How viable are some of these ideas where you are? Could these ideas be something to help us bring people to and back to the Church?

Karin,

I think you hit on a number of very good points.

I went through RCIA, but it was nearly 20 years ago now, so I don't remember a whole lot about it.

A couple of things I have seen in the various parishes I've been in...

One parish had a small-groups discussion sessions that would run on various books that pertained to different aspects of our faith and applying that faith to our daily lives. The books chosen would be timely and relevant, and usually easy to read with regards to a variety of levels of faith development. The groups would read a couple of chapters a week and get together over refreshments and discuss what they read. Most people who participated always came away with a better understanding of at least that part of their faith, even if they didn't always agree with it.

In the parish I currently attend, the pastor hosts several one-hour sessions throughout the year on such things as, "Explaining the Mass", the various sacraments, etc. They're taught at an initiate level - usually geared towards the RCIA class - but the entire parish is invited and encouraged to attend.

I know of one priest who did something very similar to that for the Latin mass - explained the gestures, taught the responses, etc. Unfortunately, I didn't get to attend that one - I think I would have enjoyed learning what he had to teach.

And a lot of catechesis can take place in the Sunday homily, a fact that is overlooked by many, both laity and priests. Take the readings and make them relevant by using current day examples. Most of the themes outlined there are still very relevant today, but they can be easily lost on folks if they fail to understand how or why they are relevant. Some priests do that to varying degrees of success. Some, unfortunately, do not.
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DeniseLawson
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Gerard
Feb 12 2008, 09:14 AM
Well Rose I think you just made my point for me.

We are saved by grace through faith, not by works of the law.

(And that IS Catholic  !  :D )

Gerry

And faith without works is dead. Not only is that Catholic, but it's also scriptural. :D (And a fact you also hit upon in a later post).

I don't normally find myself agreeing with your posts, but I have to admit to agreeing with you at least in part. While I don't agree with your apparent general disregard for rules, I agree wholeheartedly with your emphasis on not being bogged down by the rules. I guess the trick is how do you have the rules and live by them without adopting a legalistic mindset. That seemed to be the problem the Pharisees struggled with: they allowed themselves to become so bogged down in the rules, they lost the intent behind those rules, and in the process possibly even lost their souls as well. OK - I'm not sure I explained that well - it's pretty late for me here - so hopefully I didn't confuse the heck out of everyone.
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Gerard

Denise,

We agree.

Praise God :D .

Perhaps not too surprising though since we had dug down to bedrock.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Alan
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This forum sometimes raises concerns concerning the quality of Lay, parish based, Catechesis

I recently came across this reflection written by a seven year old, preparing for First Holy Communion.

I offer no apologies for any spelling or grammatical errors. I have simply copied as written.

Love is?

Love is when we tell stories about Jesus and spread it around to make the people who have done bad things don't do them again and then Jesus forgives them.


or

Shareing anything whith anybody and to let them share your things together.

Simple Of Course

Naive Yes.

Heartfelt I have no doubt.

Importantly it shows that Parish based Catechesis works. The Communicant concerned is unable to attend a Catholic School.
Edited by Alan, Tuesday, 17. June 2008, 21:12.

God Bless all who visit this forum,

Alan.

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PJD

That's so very encouraging Alan

PJD
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Fr Finigan draws attention to Daphne McLeod's article for Pro Ecclesia "WHY THE CRISIS IN THE CHURCH ?A CONTROVERSIAL BUT IRREFUTABLE ANSWER."
in which she places the blame for the current crisis, lack of vocations etc. firmly at the feet of poor catechise. She concludes
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However, anyone who actually looks at the situation in the whole Church with an open mind and avoids following the false trail laid for us by the modernists when they engineered this debacle, has to admit that it is knowing and loving Our Blessed Lord (Truth) which fills seminaries, convents and churches. So the time has come to think again if only because the fashionable theory doesn't fit the observable facts. I know it will come very hard after all these years to bring sound teaching off the back burner it has occupied for so long and put it first, second and third on our list of things to correct. There is no reason we cannot still work for a return of the Tridentine rite but without letting it take precedence over or crowd out the importance of a return to sound religious instruction. Unless we do make an effort to get our priorities right we cannot expect the Church to survive much longer in this country.
We must never forget that when our Lord commissioned His Church He told the Apostles “Go and teach everything I have commanded…” (Matt 28) This is what Christ founded His Church to do. As long as we go on failing to teach everything the Lord has commanded, we are failing Him, and we cannot expect full churches, packed seminaries, etc.

link to article
The article is well worth reading

KatyA

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Rose of York
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KatyA
Wednesday, 24. September 2008, 23:43
link to article
The article is well worth reading

KatyA

It should be compulsory reading for all priests.

I am concerned by the current tide of "freedom of belief" amongst some Catholics, and not only the younger end.

It is refreshing to read a balanced article that does not blame all the Church's ills in the Western world, on modern liturgy. In countries where attendance is increasing, the bishops and priests were under the same regime as we are, regarding Rites of Mass. They have mainly Novus Ordo, their churches were full.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Its not the teaching thats the problem.
Its the living it.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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