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Catechesis
Topic Started: Tuesday, 26. September 2006, 20:26 (1,770 Views)
Eve
Former Admin/Moderator
A CATECHISM OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE

FAITH

Chapter Two

9. What is faith?
Faith is a supernatural gift of God, which enables us
to believe without doubting whatever God has
revealed.

10. Why must you believe whatever God has revealed?
I must believe whatever God has revealed because God
is the very truth, and can neither deceive nor be
deceived.

11. How are you to know what God has revealed?
I am to know what God has revealed by the testimony,
teaching, and authority of the Catholic Church.

12. Who gave the Catholic Church divine authority to
teach?
Jesus Christ gave the Catholic Church divine
authority to teach, when he said, 'Go ye and teach
all nations.'
Matt.28:19.)
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James
James
Eve.

I don't think Gerry or anybody is contradicting or disputing effective catechesis - what we are saying - does it light the spark?.

Perhaps with a good teacher it may but with many it will not.

It is like placing all the components very carefully into a great pile in order to have a blazing bonfire - but nobody lights the spark and it remains dead.
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pete

As much as I agree with you on most things Gerry, I feel that the penny catechism is essential for all Catholics; it’s our Guide, there to assist us in faith matters.
To make a comparison, any Judge sitting on the bench in a criminal court, always has at hand a copy of Blackstones which he refers to when making directions, if it’s in Blackstones his judgment cannot be deemed unlawful. Therefore, in my opinion, by using the catechism as our guide and inspiration, we are safeguarded against accusations regarding faith matters; the catechism is our crutch and our treasure.
God bless
Pete
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Gerard

Eve,

I am intrigued by your:

Quote:
 
2. Why did God make you?
God made me to know Him, love Him and serve Him in this
world, and be happy with Him forever in the next.
(See QQ 169, 320, 336, 339, etc.)


Thats not what it says in copies I am familiar with.

http://www.proecclesia.com/page_the%20penny%20catechism.htm

I can just imagine the little dears chanting

"Why did God make you?
God made me to know Him, love Him and serve Him in this
world, and be happy with Him forever in the next.
See QQ 169, 320, 336, 339, etc"

"Why did God make you?
God made me to know Him, love Him and serve Him in this
world, and be happy with Him forever in the next.
See QQ 169, 320, 336, 339, etc"

"Why did God make you?
God made me to know Him, love Him and serve Him in this
world, and be happy with Him forever in the next.
See QQ 169, 320, 336, 339, etc"

Not that QQ 169, 320 ect help very much.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Gerard

Pete,

I prefer the Gospel.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Eve
Former Admin/Moderator
James
Feb 11 2008, 10:37 AM
Eve.

I don't think Gerry or anybody is contradicting or disputing effective catechesis - what we are saying - does it light the spark?.

James I provided text for information, and I made no comment. Some people are too young to have learnt the Penny Catechism - possibly never saw it.



Gerard
Feb 11 2008, 11:02 AM
Eve,

I am intrigued by your:

Quote:
 
2. Why did God make you?
God made me to know Him, love Him and serve Him in this
world, and be happy with Him forever in the next.
(See QQ 169, 320, 336, 339, etc.)


Thats not what it says in copies I am familiar with.

http://www.proecclesia.com/page_the%20penny%20catechism.htm

I quoted from a version that has Impramatur 1971

http://www.memorare.com/catechism/pennycat.txt
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Deleted User
Deleted User

QQ 169, 320, 336, 339, etc. (It does help once you have the link)
169. What is Charity?
Charity is a supernatural gift of God by which we
love God above all things, and our neighbour as
ourselves for God's sake.
320. Which are the two great precepts of Charity?
The two great precepts of Charity are:
1. 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy
whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and
with thy whole mind, and with thy whole
strength'.
2. 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself'.
Mark 12:30,31
336. How must be love God?
We must love God above all things, and with our
whole heart.
339. Does Jesus Christ also command us to love one
another?
Jesus Christ also commands us to love one another
- that is, all persons without exception - for
his sake.
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Rose of York
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Gerard
Feb 11 2008, 11:02 AM


I can just imagine the little dears chanting

"Why did God make you?
God made me to know Him, love Him and serve Him in this
world, and be happy with Him forever in the next.
See QQ 169, 320, 336, 339, etc"

I must say it seems a bit heavy for five year olds, and I remember at some stage in infant school asking the teacher "Please Miss why doesn't God want us to be happy in this world?" I also wondered why God's only reason for me being alive was so I could love and serve him. At that tender age I thought God was thinking of Himself and what HE wanted.

The Penny Catechism was useful for reference, but hardly evangelistic.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

THANK YOU ROSE.

More later........
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Administrator
The Penny Catechism has three references to "Scripture"

Quote:
 
109. How do you prove that there is a purgatory?
I prove that there is a purgatory from the constant teaching of the Church; and from the doctrine of Holy Scripture, which declares that God will render to every man according to his works; that nothing defiled shall enter heaven; and that some will be saved, 'as one who has gone through fire. (Matt. 16:27. Apoc. 21:27. 1 Cor. 3:15)

Quote:
 
 
133. What does the Scripture say of the happiness of heaven?
The Scripture says of the happiness of heaven: 'No eye has seen and no ear has heard, things beyond the mind of man, all that God has prepared for those who love him.' (1 Cor. 2:9)
134. Shall not the wicked also live for ever?
The wicked also shall live and be punished for ever in the fire of hell.

The Penny Catechism has three references to "Gospel"
Quote:
 

200. Are we bound in justice to contribute to the support of our pastors?
We are bound in justice to contribute to the support of our pastors; for St Paul says: 'The Lord directed that those who preach the Gospel should get their living from the Gospel'. (1 Cor. 9:14)

Quote:
 

304. What authority is there in Scripture for the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick?
The authority in Scripture for the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick is in the 5th chapter of St James (James 5:14, 15) where it is said: 'If one of you is ill he should send for the elders of the Church, and they must anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord and pray over him. The prayer of faith shall save the sick man; and the Lord will raise him up again; and if he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.'

Quote:
 
360. Ought we frequently to read good books?
We ought frequently to read good books, such as the Holy Gospels, the Lives of the Saints, and other spiritual works, which nourish our faith and piety, and arm us against the false maxims of the world.

The word "Bible" is not in the Penny Catechism.






Keep the Faith!

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Deleted User
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Quote:
 
A correct form of words had long been an issue among theologians, one form being regarded as heretical and another as sound doctrine. This led to a concentration on getting the words right. But it seems to have obscured the question as to what the words meant to people, and especially in the case of a text for pupils, to young children. Challoner shows a good command of language, and an ability to communicate even with the young. But this can not be said of all the revisions. The Penny Catechism is full of good theological terminology, and it was deemed to be the work of the teacher to explain the technical meaning of these words, and expand the pupils understanding. Good teachers often achieved this, but many were content to insist on the next ten questions being learnt by heart for the following day.

The Penny Catechism: a long lasting text
The above link is to an article on the history of the Penny Catechism. The reference to use of correct terminology made me smile, as that is one issue stressed in many subjects today (particularly EPR) but not, apparently, in RE.
On the issue of catechises for the young, I came across two further articles
one by Michael Davies and one from The Catholic Union of Great Britain (which I confess I had not heard of previously)
My point is that, although the penny Catechism may leave room for improvement, nobody has yet come up with anything better.

KatyA
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Gerard

Quote:
 
nobody has yet come up with anything better.


:o

The Bible is better.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Gerard

The first link you provided was very interesting - the one on the history.
Apparently a catechism is a protestant invention.

Gerry

:rofl:
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Gerard
Feb 11 2008, 03:06 PM
Quote:
 
nobody has yet come up with anything better.


:o

The Bible is better.

The Bible needs an interpreter and not everything is in it.
S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

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Lilo
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If the Bible is the equivalent of a basic Catechism, why are there so many variations on the Christian theme?

We obviously need both.

And while it is fashionable to deride traditional catechisms - Penny Catechism in the UK, Baltimore Catechism across North America - we need only look at the wasteland religious education has become since these were dropped to get the message that they were effective.
The root problem in a lot of bad catechesis is ultimately not ignorance, but pride. ~ Mark Shea

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