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| Catechesis | |
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| Topic Started: Tuesday, 26. September 2006, 20:26 (1,771 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 16:06 Post #31 |
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It is just the same here. Couples have to give six months notice of intended marriage and attend preparation. There are pre baptism courses and parents are involved in preparation for First Confession and Holy Communion. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 16:27 Post #32 |
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Children learnt the catechism by rote from the age of 5. Later they progressed to the Catechism of Christian Doctrine with explanations, delving deeper each year as the children matured. For instance, the five year old would learn that Honour thy father and thy mother meant just that (do as your parents tell you), and also obey our teachers. Later we learnt that parents had a right to respect in addition to blind obedience, and had a corresponding duty to love and nurture their children, and a similar moral code applied to employers and workers. A week's RE lessons could be taken up, explaining the full meaning of one question in the Catechism. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Gerard | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 16:51 Post #33 |
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Well, lerning by rote is a good approach for an academic subject such as mathematics. Christianity, however is not an academic subject - it is a relatioship. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| PJD | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 17:14 Post #34 |
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Surely Gerry the child learns to recite the Our Father first. At least even at three or four he know that Our Father is in Heaven. Explanations later. [But I take your point] PJD |
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| Gerard | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 18:30 Post #35 |
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PJD You select a prayer - and I agree that would be preferable to the dreaded penny catechism. I think my reluctance to base Christianity on a catechism is that I think it is a mistake to reduce Christianity to a set of rules. This was the mistake of the Pharisees. Christianity is first and foremost a relationship. If Christianity is presented as a moralism or a set of rules it is more likeley to be rejected. I agree with Alan above. The generation that rebelled had learned by rote. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| PJD | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 21:20 Post #36 |
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"The generation that rebelled had learned by rote." Yes Gerry, rote was the method of all. Not everyone rebelled though. And many that did will (hopefully) come back - albeit wiser and with contrition. I admit that their wisdom, so to speak, has been assisted by the new generation, and the gainer perhaps may be tolerance. PJD |
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| James | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 22:05 Post #37 |
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James
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So the main consideration would seem a question of lack of faith rather than effective catechesis. I don't think "The faith" is complicated but it is unproven from a scientific approach. (I am not talking about the rudiments of religion or moral behaviour here but a simple faith ( perhaps I should say profound in it's simplicity) in the risen christ and his relationship with us.) Nothing can be proven or disproven. Many people with modern means of communication and knowledge and mainly scientific approach will not accept the basic concept of , say, a man arsing from the dead after a horrific execution - they will take more credence from "The Da Vinci Code" or similar fictional writings with alternative happenings. It seems more " logical " and , after al,l it was two thousand years ago so who knows what happened ? I think, primarily, that love must be ,at least, actively embryonic and the rudiments (catechesis) secondary. It is only the lover of mathematics that will progress beyond the basic rote teaching - love of the subject must be inherent. It is only the lover of God who will progress beyond the catechesis. So - my problem here would be :- how does one go about getting one to love God and believe in something that is beyond human reason.? After all - the love of God is embryonic in everybody. Therein lyeth the rub !! |
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| Quicunque vult | Monday, 11. February 2008, 00:00 Post #38 |
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Speaking as someone who converted in my 30s and did not grow up with the Penny Catechism, I find it difficult to see what is so dreadful about it. On the contrary, I find it a very clear and easy to read statement of the fundamentals of the faith, and very beautiful. Was it perhaps more the way it was taught than the contents? Of course, a more mature understanding of the faith requires something more than this, and we now have the very fine Compendium, but nevertheless the Penny Catechism remains a very good building block. I wonder how much better those reared on the pretty dire catechetical materials of recent years have fared? Not too well, I would surmise from the rate of lapsation. Relationship is of course important, but it can only be developed on the basis of a proper understanding of Church teaching and Scripture. Otherwise, it is mere individual experience - and that is the heresy of Modernism. QV |
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| sumermamma | Monday, 11. February 2008, 00:05 Post #39 |
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Alan, My children are in their 30ies. We taught them the Catechism as they were preparing for the Sacrments b/c what they were learning was so watered down it evaporated before the water went through the sieve. They know their Faith fairly well, but not as well as the Catechism grnerations.The all practice their faith, but they certainly do not share their Faith. Perhaps when they are older. My earlier point was that like anything expected to stand the test of time, the foundation is of utmost importance. Quicunque vult, The Catechism was puonded into our heads. An your very fine point on the lapse rate is totally "right on." Those generations were told they did not have to go to Mass on Sunday. God help them and their teachers. sm |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 11. February 2008, 00:06 Post #40 |
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I learnt the Penny Catechism by rote, but the teachers talked to us about the questions and answers, we did not just recite it parrot fashion. Gerard says the generation that rebelled had learned by rote. Earlier generations that did not rebel also learned by rote. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 11. February 2008, 00:10 Post #41 |
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What is so dreadful about the much maligned Penny Catechism? It's a very concise and simple presentation of the Creed, the Sacraments, the Our Father, the Ten Commandments and the Precepts of the Church. Which of those do we not need to know, and which do not promote a personal relationship with God? IMHO, the Penny Catechism is denigrated precisely because it is so simple, and doesn't leave room for misinformed or well-meaning catechists to put their own spin on the basic tenets of the Faith. KatyA |
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| sumermamma | Monday, 11. February 2008, 00:13 Post #42 |
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Katey A, You are so right. The spin's the thing in relating the Trurhs of the Faith or the personal opinions of the teacher. sm |
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| Gerard | Monday, 11. February 2008, 10:21 Post #43 |
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RULES, RULES, RULES, This is my objection to teaching based on catechisms. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Gerard | Monday, 11. February 2008, 10:41 Post #44 |
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QV, and Rose and PJD, The reason I entered this thread was because of the view that what we needed now was to go back to teaching as we used to - from the penny catechism and its ilk. We find it here in QVs post. But rote produced no better results. Other religions invariably have a fearsom God who must be placated by following a set of rules. Christianity is different from other religions in that we know God is love and this is the beginning point for us. The rules are secondary and subservient to the love of God. When we base our religion on rules (as we do in the penny catechism and its ilk) we end up with a pagan religion based on rules and with people trying to get to heaven in their own strength. We keep them in the religion by frightening them into submission - and this is what happened in the "good old days". So its not surprising that the first chance they got - the people walked. QV - I will show what is so bad about the penny catechism:
That is the first two questions in the penny catechism. The first thing the 5 year old is taught - and the only bit they are likely to remember years later (you can test this out by asking your friends). Now. What sort of God is that? Is it the God of Islam? Could well be. It says He made us specifically to serve him - just like Islam's God. And the rule is WE love and serve him. Thats not the God of Christianity. The God of Christianity made us to love us. He served us more than we could ever serve him. When you reduce Christianity to a set of rules you invariably loose the love of God. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Eve | Monday, 11. February 2008, 11:18 Post #45 |
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A CATECHISM OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE FAITH Chapter One 1. Who made you? God made me. 2. Why did God make you? God made me to know Him, love Him and serve Him in this world, and be happy with Him forever in the next. (See QQ 169, 320, 336, 339, etc.) 3. To whose image and likeness did God make you? God made me to his own image and likeness. 4. Is this likeness to God in your body, or in your soul? This likeness to God is chiefly in my soul. 5. How is your soul like to God? My soul is like to God because it is a spirit, and is immortal. 6. What do you mean when you say that your soul is immortal? When I say my soul is immortal, I mean that my soul can never die. 7. Of which must you take most care, of your body or of your soul? I must take most care of my soul; for Christ has said, 'What doth it profit a man if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul?' Matt. 16:26 (In Catholic theology, the soul and body are not opposed to each other. The human body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, made to the image and likeness of God. Salvation is for the whole person, both body and soul.) 8. What must you do to save your soul? To save my soul I must worship God by Faith, Hope and Charity; that is, I must believe in him, I must hope in him, and I must love him with my whole heart. |
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8:37 PM Jul 11