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| Catechesis | |
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| Topic Started: Tuesday, 26. September 2006, 20:26 (1,772 Views) | |
| Alan | Monday, 30. April 2007, 00:35 Post #16 |
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Joseph, There is nothing extraordinary about the Parish to which I belonged at that time. in doing our Confirmation preparation we would request Parishioners to host our weekly discussion groups and on the appointed nights (usually Friday) We would be with different families. The host family were invited to be part of the discussions. Consequently when it came to days of Recollection we would have a considerable number of attendees. Every one gained in Faith because of the effort put in by the Cathechists these were indeed very special occassions enjoyed by Confirmation candidates, their parents and families and all parishioners who attended. At the time we would generally have about 15 candidates. On our days of Recollection we could have up to 70 people attending. It did not frighten our parishioners at all. It simply grew. To this day many years later Confirmation Candidates, in the Parish concerned, carry out a service project to assist the counties childrens hospice. |
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God Bless all who visit this forum, Alan. Add Catholic CyberForum to your favourites | |
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| Joseph | Monday, 30. April 2007, 00:46 Post #17 |
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Horses for courses, Alan. I do agree with you re: Confirmation and Communion classes, in which parents/gardians are required to participate. They can be used to Catechise the adults as well as the children, but it still bears no comparison to the Catechesis given in schools pre the 70's does it, nor is it likely to reach even the standard aimed at in RCIA Groups either. |
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Joseph | |
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| Alan | Monday, 30. April 2007, 01:11 Post #18 |
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Joseph, I do not understand where you are coming from? You appear to be under the impression that Parish Catechist is substandard. Nothing could be further from the truth. As for your reference to the pre 70's. Learning the Catechism by Rote. Sorry I disagree. Parish based preparation I feel is better. Even in the pre 70's the majority of children had no access to Catholic Schools and were prepared by lay people in the parish. There was a particular Sodality of Our Lady, (I cannot remember its correct name) , whose lay members prepared people for the Sacraments. As I have not worked with the RCIA programmes I am not in a position to comment. However there are 2 differences. Those on RCIA programs have a more intense course and are mostly adults who have decided to convert. Secondly those on RCIA courses are being prepared for all the Sacraments of Initiation plus The Sacrament of Penance. |
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God Bless all who visit this forum, Alan. Add Catholic CyberForum to your favourites | |
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| PJD | Monday, 30. April 2007, 20:51 Post #19 |
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KatyA said “I certainly think we would benefit from adult education in the Faith, but I wonder how this can be achieved.” I agree with her wonder (smile). Rose: It’s not so much they would be scared to death as much as thinking it might just be a talking shop. As for parish libraries – I agree if they have kept them – and as for joining this forum, I agree that might be better, well I would agree wouldn’t I. Joseph is right – it is nothing to do with intellect. And there is something right I feel about his comment “don’t want their boats rocking”. As I have opined here before – how to you re-educate the educators? So it is indeed a big problem. Alan: From what you write it does appear that where you are they are indeed doing sterling work. But you yourself said that you are starting off mostly with adults who have decided to convert. Adult catechesis is obviously quite important, but this topic is also covering instructions given to children from an early age. In that respect, if parish based preparation is better then why are so many of the young people leaving secondary school failing to keep up with their commitment to the faith. Regarding schools pre l970, I would have thought that the majority of children did have access to Catholic School and they were prepared by the teachers in that school. That is how the system worked. Others will correct me if I am wrong (smile). When I left school my religious education was fair and average and orthodox – but the faith was strong. And fear of God was relatively stronger. Nowadays, with modern methods, most religious education (not 3 rs smile) I think is above the previous average in respect of, let us say, the ‘secularist-module’ system – but faith seems weaker??? Finally, and I know this turns on the secular, but pre 1970 reading/writing ability and habit was higher. Which meant that as you grew older you had the natural ability/confidence to study further and take more detail and more things in if you so wished. That is why the modern Internet is so much of a boon to the older generations if they take the trouble to master the initial technique of using it. So Rose is not so tongue in cheek when speaking of forums - you could get all the catechesis material you want on here. Does that make sense? PJD |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 30. April 2007, 21:13 Post #20 |
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Administrator
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I take internet learning very seriously. I have widened my knowledge of the Faith, and Catholic affairs generally, more from the internet than from any other source, since I left school. Perhaps the Bishops Conference of England and Wales will, some time in the future, make effective use of Cyberspace. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| PJD | Tuesday, 1. May 2007, 19:16 Post #21 |
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Rose: Sometime ago I had reason to comment in the lower house on a reference provided which referred to Barbieri’s sweeping essay on French history. The context is not important here; but I think the following extract relates to our topic. “After the hideous shock of the Revolution, the Church staged a remarkable comeback. There were not only more Catholics, but more Catholics in the higher classes and among the educated in 1860 than there were in 1760. This was exemplified by the magnificent figure of the Cure’ d’Arrs….” I might add that this ‘exemplification’ could equally refer to the likes of John Henry Newman. Nevertheless I put it to you that today we have a comparable situation. I speak only with respect to religious knowledge and catechesis. What then might be comparable today in a similar manner as it so transpired then? – notably methinks in the field of information. They benefited from the gradual mass production of books – the contra-revolution of the printing press so to speak. We enjoy a similar revolution i.e. that of ‘information technology’. Documents and material previously available for easy access only to the preserves of the mid 20th C. intellectuals etc. Nowadays books such as the Catechism (originally intended for Bishops) downloaded free and at a stroke. Search facilities operating in a flash. Information available to all - irrespective of income, class or disposition. Therein may, just may, lie part of the fruit of our present hope. PJD |
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| Deleted User | Wednesday, 2. May 2007, 08:34 Post #22 |
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While I appreciate the difficulties outlined by others I like Rose's idea of a parish library very much and I will see if I can get one started in my parish. I think it is almost certain to get off to a slow start but books are dangerous and contagious things and who knows, an epidemic of thirst for knowledge might break out. My own view would be that we would need quite a clever mixture of books. I cannot see it working if all the books had an air of pious certainty about them. I think the most intriguing thing to many people is when they discover that all of us are struggling to make sense of some aspects of the Faith and that there is a richness of often conflicting thought about these Mysteries. John |
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| Eve | Wednesday, 10. October 2007, 16:55 Post #23 |
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Former Admin/Moderator
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Link to General Directory for Catechesis |
| Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately? | |
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 9. February 2008, 15:53 Post #24 |
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A timely reminder from the Holy Father on the subject of catechists. The secret to being a good catechist is to live what you preach, Benedict XVI told the bishops of Costa Rica. After discussing the possibility of a new evangelization in the country, in the face of a materialistic and secular culture, and the appearance of new religious movements and sects, the Holy Father analysed the decisive importance of catechists. "They undoubtedly deserve the gratitude, encouragement, and constant attention of their pastors," he said, "so they always systematically receive a solid Christian formation, taking into account as well that they are called to carry Christian values into the various areas of society: the world of work, of civil society and of politics." Speaking particularly to catechists, the Pontiff reminded them to "unite the transmission of right doctrine with personal testimony, with the firm commitment to live according to the commandments of the Lord and with the lived experience of being faithful and active members of the Church." "This example of life," according to Benedict XVI, "is necessary so that your instruction does not stay in a mere transmission of theoretical knowledge about the mysteries of God, but that it leads to embracing a Christian way of life." This was already the case in the early Church, in which at the end of one's period of Christian initiation, "it was examined if the catechumens ‘have properly lived their catechumenate, if they honoured widows, if they visited the sick, if they have done good works,'" the Pope said, citing the "Apostolic Tradition," one of the oldest ecclesiastical constitutions, written around 215. ZENIT |
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| Lilo | Saturday, 9. February 2008, 17:35 Post #25 |
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Or not . . . All hell broke lose here when a parish priest ordered small catechisms to place in the pews. Each Sunday he would begin his homily with one point from the catechism before addressing the day's topic. I thought it an excellent idea; I heard from young families who loved it because they were finally being taught the Faith . . . but the local powers-that-be raised such a stink because they supposedly knew all this and were insulted to hear it again. Because our ultra-liberal in-crowd was offended it was supposed to stop. It's hard to tell how this would have turned out because at that point our bishop sent the priest away to study canon law for four years. When he returns, there's no guarantee he'll be back in our parish. The little books still sit in the pews . . . |
The root problem in a lot of bad catechesis is ultimately not ignorance, but pride. ~ Mark Shea![]()
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| sumermamma | Saturday, 9. February 2008, 21:42 Post #26 |
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Alan, Rote is the building block. Much like a wall, all of the bricks are place in a way the wall will remain strong and enduring. How did you learn the multiplication tables? Rote! The Jesuits say, " repitio est mater studeorum, " repetition is the mother of learning. I mentioned on one of the forums we, in the states, have pre Jordan classes for all parents expecting to have their children Baptised. Call it continuing ed. if you wish, but it is a requirement. And, so with the Communion and Confirmation classes, just more continuing ed. What better time for it to happen. sm |
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| PJD | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 12:23 Post #27 |
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"This example of life," according to Benedict XVI, "is necessary so that your instruction does not stay in a mere transmission of theoretical knowledge about the mysteries of God, but that it leads to embracing a Christian way of life." As the Pope indicates, first priority given to 'example of life', and that obviously applies to us all. He also mentions a second essential, after the first, "transmission of theoretical knowledge". Important point. sumermamma mentions "Rote is the building block". Worked very well for the 'times-tables' (smile). PJD |
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| Alan | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 14:19 Post #28 |
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Learning by "Rote" certainly has its place. However it does not help with Faith sharing and enhancement of one's personal faith. There are many suggestions in our Churches about the fact that we have few people in our churches between the ages of 20 to 35 years of age. It is generally because their parents did not attend (These are the last of the Generation taught by Rote). Yes they know their Cathecism but do not share their faith within families or with others.. Yes Catechesis is vitally important and all of us have a responsibility for it. Yet we cannot exercise this responsibility if we have not got the people in our churches. |
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God Bless all who visit this forum, Alan. Add Catholic CyberForum to your favourites | |
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| JRJ | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 14:43 Post #29 |
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I have found the memorization of prayers to be essential to the enhancement of my personal faith. The Hail Mary, Our Father, etc. force me to focus on God instead of myself. It is my opinion that rote learning of the Faith had nothing to do with the estrangement from the Church of many of the "Baby Boomers" - they chose to be their own gods, as we all do to a greater or lesser degree (see the readings for the First Sunday of Lent). In my experience, they then have to find a substitute for the Church, in any number and type of other groups from protestant sects to party charities (where adults gather to do good works followed by boisterous parties). |
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Jennifer hubby's dinosaur blog | |
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| Deleted User | Sunday, 10. February 2008, 15:13 Post #30 |
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At one time, teaching of the "times tables" was discouraged; because the children should know why 2x2=4 etc. Now they have been reintroduced because it is now acknowledged that the method works. Similarly, the Penny Catechism worked - children may not have fully understood but, as with times tables, understanding progressed as they developed. More than that, and also like the times tables, in most cases it stayed with them for life, even though the knowledge may be hidden away in a hidden corner of the mind - it's there. I'm not saying that the Penny Catechism (or something like it) is the answer, but at least it ensured that everyone had a very basic knowledge of the faith at an early stage and this could be developed and understood with more concentrated study. We need to know the Faith in order to live it fully, we need to know the Faith in order to evangelise. KatyA |
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8:37 PM Jul 11