| We hope you enjoy your visit! You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harasment, and crude or sexually-explicit language. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Christmas Questions | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Friday, 22. December 2006, 22:14 (452 Views) | |
| Derekap | Friday, 22. December 2006, 22:14 Post #1 |
|
1 When the Shepherds made their way to Bethlehem did they take their sheep with them or leave them in the care of other shepherds? 2 Did the Three Kings really travel together without any cortege, and wearing their crowns and royal robes? 3 Was The Holy Family not able to move into the inn a day or two later? 4 The Holy Family would need food, drink and meals. Did the inn become a precurser of McDonalds? Any ideas? Or more interesting questions? |
| Derekap | |
 |
 
|
| Rose of York | Friday, 22. December 2006, 22:28 Post #2 |
Administrator
|
1 Sheep are territorial. Many flocks can be left on open moorland, unattended. Provided there is access to clean water the owners can leave them unattended. Days later each flock will still be in its regular area. The shepherds must have lived locally, so they would just up and go. Anyway they too had to register for the census so they would need to go into town (Bethlehem). 2 Who says the three wise men were kings? 3 No. A woman was unclean for a while after childbirth. 3 No. Only prime beef and lamb are good enough for the Son of God. Mary was a good wife. She would not have expected her husband to eat in any precurser of McDonalds |
  Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
|
|
|
| Gerard | Friday, 22. December 2006, 22:43 Post #3 |
|
Derek
From what I have read, heard on tapes and watched on TV there was no inn. Apparently this is something of a miss-translation. The correct one being "there was no room in the upper room". Mary and Joseph were most probably staying with Joseph's relatives in Bethlehem and there were others who were either more important or had got there first. And the upper room (the living quarters) in a simple house (possibly a cave-house) was full. So Mary and Joseph had to make do with the lower level (ground level) which was where the animals were housed. So they stayed there before and after the birth of ur Lord. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
|
|
| Derekap | Saturday, 23. December 2006, 15:58 Post #4 |
|
The Three Wise Men are usually depicted as Kings. They are shown as wandering through the desert on camels wearing crowns and royal robes. Also wearing the same attire when they adoring the Child Jesus. And do we not sing:"We three Kings from Orient are!"? Do we take it therefore that there were no Kings and the Holy Family stayed in the outhouse of an early B&B? Further question, when the shepherds heard the Choir of Angels, were they accompanied by an organ in traditional ritual style? |
| Derekap | |
|
|
|
| JARay | Monday, 25. December 2006, 00:03 Post #5 |
|
The matter of "There was no room for them at the Inn" is one which I have understood in a different way than most, for many years now. It has a sort of line that Gerard takes. The inn was a very simple, basic affair. There were two rooms for the guests. One for men and another for women. Mary was heavily pregnant and the inn certainly did not have a maternity room. The inn-keeper suggested that the only suitable room was the stable where Mary could give birth in private. It was very common for people to share the stable themslves. This common practice went on all over Europe, for example, for centuries, so there certainly was no stigma attached to sharing the stable. Thus it was that the inn-keeper offered to Mary and Joseph the best room he had for the purpose of the birth of Jesus. Why do we have Midnight Mass? Well, the scriptures make it clear that the birth of Jesus took place at night. Since we don't know much more than that, why not celebrate the Nativity from the very begining of the day set aside for this celebration? My brother asked me if we used to have Midnight Mass during WW II. We were both only children then and our memories are only of morning Mass. I simply don't know whether we did or not but I guessed that it might have been stopped during the war and re-started afterwards. There was a blackout you know! Perhaps others can elighten me. Last night my own parish had a vigil "Family" Mass. I don't like all the shinanigans which go on so I avoided it like the plague but my eldest son is working today and so the vigil Mass was for him. One of my other sons went along too. In such a circumstance they "borrow" my car. I flatly refused to let them have it on this occassion. Last year they gave out around 4,000 Communions at this Mass and cars are parked here, there and everywhere. When I was told the number of Communions given out then, my immediate response was to question how many were in a State of Grace at that time.-(I think nasty thoughts like that). I drove the pair up to church and they rang me when it was time to pick them up. Looking at the schimozzle of cars I knew that the same story was happening this year. And I have them same nasty thoughts too. I went to a full, sung Latin Mass at midnight. I joined the choir and thoroughly enjoyed it. Fortunately the thurifer did not send clouds of incense throughout the chapel or breathing would have been worse than it actually was. It was a hot, sticky night. Not a breath of wind and the place was very full. The singing was not bad though! My eldest will come back from work in time to eat his Christmas Dinner and then he'll dash back to work. And I'm the cook! Happy Christmas JARay |
|
|
|
| Patrick | Monday, 25. December 2006, 00:25 Post #6 |
Administrator
|
 Thanks, Derek! Just what I needed! |
  
| |
|
|
|
| Rose of York | Monday, 25. December 2006, 01:16 Post #7 |
|
Administrator
|
Jaray, I have an unusually clear memory of childhood events. You are correct in thinking there were no midnight Masses during wartime. I can clearly remember the excitement when my parents and older members of the family attended Midnight Mass, and explained to the younger ones that "this is what we used to do but it was stopped because of the war". For the information of young 'uns: Every building had to be equipped with blackout blinds, made of very opaque material that would not let the light be seen from outside. Torches could be used, provided they had little shields over the top so the German bomber crews could not see them. Street lighting was turned off for the duration. I remember asking a man what he was doing, he explained that he was a lamplighter, and he was lighting the street lights so people could see in the dark. Many of the men who had not gone to war were doing war work on the Home Front, going out on duty after a day's work. The Home Guard were a far cry from Dad's Army once they got organised. In our town they manned anti aircraft guns, in case the mills that made Army blankets and cloth for uniforms, were bombed. People manned soup kitchens, ambulance drivers and nurses were at their posts, so were the Air Raid Patrols - just in case Gerry paid a visit. In the town where I grew up, over ten per cent were practising Catholics, and Anglicans also have midnight services. It would not have been feasible for churchgoers to be given time off for midnight Mass or other services. The volume of singing from the local Methodist Chapels would have told Gerry where the town were, so it would have been uncceptable for them to sing after dark. The night when my parents attended their first Midnight Mass after the war ended, I left some Christmas cake and a glass of sherry out for Father Christmas. My little sister left a tiny bit of food for the Christmas Fairy, and my brother put oats in a container for the reindeer. Santa and his retinue enjoyed supper with my parents and their three oldest children. That is an indisputable fact. It must be true, because my Dad said so. |
|
Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
|
|
|
| CARLO | Monday, 25. December 2006, 03:03 Post #8 |
|
Derek I expect so.And it is certain that they celebrated in the Tridentine style when they arrived at the stable.  Dear me! CARLO |
| Judica me Deus | |
|
|
|
| Derekap | Monday, 25. December 2006, 10:33 Post #9 |
|
So all our visions of an overcrowded noisy smoke-filled pub and The Holy Family having to put-up with the humiliating stable are somewhat misguided? |
| Derekap | |
|
|
|
| Derekap | Monday, 25. December 2006, 10:56 Post #10 |
|
During WW2 in this country "Midnight Mass" could be offered during the afternoon of Christmas Eve before it got dark. We were on Summer time (GMT + 1 hour) so it got darker later but of course it was darker later in the mornings. My parish church was a hall with square windows so the pp arranged wooden screens which could be clipped in and removed as required. The upper windows were blacked-out permanently for the duration. There was a deep porch which could be lit only by light coming from inside the hall. So Benediction, Midnight Mass and early morning Mass were practical and offered. In fact Midnight Mass was offered at Midnight until the present pp came late in 2005. Another church had a chapel which could be blacked-out partially so early morning Mass was possible with candles and a little light. Incidently, in Summer we were on Double Summer Time (GMT+2hours). |
| Derekap | |
|
|
|
| CARLO | Monday, 25. December 2006, 18:14 Post #11 |
|
Derek Another very informative piece that would fit well into that history of Catholicism since Emancipation that I wish someone would write. All your precautions certainly ensured that you did not get hit by a V2 !!!! (That came later)  Buon Natale mio amico Happy Christmas my friend CARLO |
| Judica me Deus | |
|
|
|
| Gerard | Monday, 25. December 2006, 21:47 Post #12 |
|
Derek, I would say it was overcrowded, probably smoky and certainly where the animals were stabled. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
|
|
|
| Gerard | Monday, 25. December 2006, 21:51 Post #13 |
|
Derek, Surely they were strumming stringed instruments  Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
|
|
|
| CARLO | Monday, 25. December 2006, 22:56 Post #14 |
|
Gerry You should have taken a few snaps and posted them on the Internet so we could all see!  Pax CARLO |
| Judica me Deus | |
|
|
|
| CARLO | Monday, 25. December 2006, 22:57 Post #15 |
|
They may have had harps or lyres but let us hope they were 'finger picking' and not 'strumming' them! Buon Natale CARLO |
| Judica me Deus | |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · ADVENT & CHRISTMAS · Next Topic » | |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
2:33 PM Nov 24