Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
The Catholic Church Is Not A Democracy
Topic Started: Tuesday, 21. November 2006, 23:08 (778 Views)
Deleted User
Deleted User

:grin:
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Rose God created order out of chaos, your sugestion would reverse the process. :stirthepot:
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
OsullivanB
Monday, 11. May 2009, 00:27
Definitely. It may be the first step towards achieving the sublime harmony we find in the Anglican Communion.
You forgot these:

:rofl:

:wh:
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ned

I have no problem at all with the basic idea of an authoitarian church. But even proper, lawful, authority is open to abuse.

The Church's big problem is the absence of effective checks against the Abuse of Authority.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Ned
Wednesday, 13. May 2009, 18:46
The Church's big problem is the absence of effective checks against the Abuse of Authority.
also the usurping of authority. Many have a misconception that consultative councils are in a position to make decisions and dictate to parish clergy. They are called Consultative Councils because that is all they are.

Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mairtin
Member Avatar

Ned
Wednesday, 13. May 2009, 18:46
I have no problem at all with the basic idea of an authoitarian church. But even proper, lawful, authority is open to abuse.

The Church's big problem is the absence of effective checks against the Abuse of Authority.
The Catholic Church is not a democracy; neither is it an autocracy - it's a theocracy and authoritarianism is an inherent characteristic of that.

Authoritarianism, however, is the solely the right to impose one’s will, it is no guarantee of that will being right. Our Church has made mistakes in the past and undoubtedly will do in the future; what we have to remember is that “the Boss” above knows what He is doing and He will pull us out of whatever messes our human shortcomings get us into.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mairtin
Member Avatar

Rose of York
Wednesday, 13. May 2009, 19:44
Many have a misconception that consultative councils are in a position to make decisions and dictate to parish clergy. They are called Consultative Councils because that is all they are.

I don't think it's that black and white, Rose.

If the church roof needs repaired and the parish school wants a new extension, then I think those doing the fund raising have a right to have a very big say in which gets done first.

If it's a question of what should be the subject of next Sunday's homily then it's none of their business.

In between those, there is a whole range of things where their influence will be greater or lesser depending on the issue.

I think the real answer is that NOBODY should be dictating - let's be honest and admit that Parish Priests were pretty good at that in the past - things should generally be done in a spirit of goodwill and cooperation.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Mairtin
Wednesday, 13. May 2009, 21:31
Rose of York
Wednesday, 13. May 2009, 19:44
Many have a misconception that consultative councils are in a position to make decisions and dictate to parish clergy. They are called Consultative Councils because that is all they are.

I don't think it's that black and white, Rose.

If the church roof needs repaired and the parish school wants a new extension, then I think those doing the fund raising have a right to have a very big say in which gets done first.
Yes they have a right to be consulted, and put their preferences forward. Our last priest had a job done in an emergency and someone complained he had "no right to spend OUR money without the PERMISSION of the consultative council." That is not the way it works.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tomais

what one interpretes on this subject will pivot on what the individual is; what he/she is;the innate individualism is with in each person/ look up Duns Scotus.
I tempt many here when I posit that one cannot altogether dismiss elements at the start of the reformation.
The question of God and how God enters into each and ever individual is not dependent on man.
God was present at the beginning of everything.
Western philosophy-again Duns Scotus can lay out a plan for what we are and how we think and order decisions.
That is if you/we wish to have an outsider assist us.
other that that-on an isolated island how would you act ?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PJD


"That is if you/we wish to have an outsider assist us."

Tomais - as an outsider (you that is) who can assist. Please can you let us have some of Duns Scotus' text. That would very much assist if you have them at hand that is.

PJD
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sumermamma

PJD,
This is as close as I could come to the Duns Scotus.' I could not find the texts.
sm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05194a.htm
Edited by sumermamma, Thursday, 4. June 2009, 00:58.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

A couple more links to the Blessed John Scotus


http://www.franciscan-archive.org/scotus/



http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/scotism.htm

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/duns-scotus/

http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/scotus.htm

http://shell.cas.usf.edu/~twilliam/dunsscotus/works.html


As I mentioned on another thread he was long obscured by the dominance of Thomistic Philosophy. The democratic processes of the Church tended to encourage his obscurity, the Dominican influence on the Papacy being stronger than that of the Franciscans.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
PJD

Thank you sm and Penfold for those links.

May come back to you on this. Will read.

PJD
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Archived Discussions · Next Topic »
Add Reply