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| The Mass and how it is celebrated -Rites & rites. ; The differing, traditions Rites and Uses." | |
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| Topic Started: Sunday, 5. November 2006, 16:43 (2,334 Views) | |
| nelly k | Sunday, 5. November 2006, 16:43 Post #1 |
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What is the Syro-Malabar Rite, and its relation to the Latin Rite ... if any, thanks nelly |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 5. November 2006, 17:12 Post #2 |
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Nelly, Catholics of the Syro-Malabar Rite appear to have an Indian background, and be in Communion with Rome. If you log onto www.google.com and ask for sites with the exact phrase: Syro-Malabar Rite and ask for sites ending with .uk you will see that a few of our churches in the UK allow them to use the Catholic Church premises for celebration of Mass in their rite. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| nelly k | Sunday, 5. November 2006, 17:56 Post #3 |
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Thanks Rose, nelly |
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| Deacon Robert | Sunday, 5. November 2006, 19:38 Post #4 |
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Here is a list of the Eastern churches in communion with Rome The Holy See's Annuario Pontificio gives the following list of Eastern Catholic Churches and of countries (or other political areas) in which they possess an episcopal ecclesiastical jurisdiction (date of reunion in parenthesis): Alexandrian liturgical tradition Coptic Catholic Church (patriarchate): Egypt (1741) Ethiopic Catholic Church (metropolia): Ethiopia, Eritrea (1846) Antiochian (Antiochene or West-Syrian) liturgical tradition Maronite Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Argentina, Brazil, USA, Australia, Canada, Mexico (union re-affirmed 1182) Syrian Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Palestine, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, United States and Canada, Venezuela (1781) Syro-Malankara Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): India, United States of America (1930) Armenian liturgical tradition: Armenian Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Palestine, Ukraine, France, Greece, Latin America, Argentina, Romania, United States and Canada, Eastern Europe (1742) Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition: Chaldean Catholic Church (patriarchate): Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, United States of America (1692) Syro-Malabar Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): India, United States of America (at latest, 1599) Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition: Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church (apostolic administration): Albania (1628) Belarusian Greek Catholic Church (no established hierarchy at present): Belarus (1596) Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic exarchate): Bulgaria (1861) Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Serbia, and Montenegro (1611) Greek Byzantine Catholic Church (two apostolic exarchates): Greece, Turkey (1829) Hungarian Greek Catholic Church (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Hungary (1646) Italo-Albanian Catholic Church (two eparchies and a territorial abbacy): Italy (Never separated) Macedonian Greek Catholic Church (an apostolic exarchate): Republic of Macedonia (1918) Melkite Greek Catholic Church (patriarchate): Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Jerusalem, Brazil, USA, Canada, Mexico, Iraq, Egypt and Sudan, Kuwait, Australia, Venezuela, Argentina (1726) Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic (major archiepiscopate): Romania, United States of America (1697) Russian Byzantine Catholic Church: (two apostolic exarchates, at present with no published hierarchs): Russia, China (1905); currently about 20 parishes and communities scattered around the world, including five in Russia itself, answering to bishops of other jurisdictions Ruthenian Catholic Church (a sui juris metropolia, an eparchy, and an apostolic exarchate): United States of America, Ukraine, Czech Republic (1646) Slovak Greek Catholic Church (two eparchies and an apostolic exarchate): Slovak Republic, Canada (1646) Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): Ukraine, Poland, USA, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and Scandinavia, France, Brazil, Argentina (1595) As is obvious from the above list, an individual autonomous particular Church may have distinct jurisdictions (local particular Churches) in several countries. The situation of the Ruthenian Catholic Church is exceptional. A constituent metropolia, the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh, which is referred to also, but not officially, as the Byzantine Catholic Church in America, is treated as if it held the rank of an autonomous ("sui iuris") metropolitan particular Church, because, when it was set up as an ecclesiastical province (in 1969), conditions in the Rusyn (Ruthenia) homeland admitted no other solution, the Byzantine Catholic Church there having been suppressed by the Government. When Communist rule ended, the eparchy of Mukacheve (founded in 1771) was able to come again into the open. It has some 320,000 adherents, greater than the number in the Pittsburgh metropolia. In addition, an apostolic exarchate established in 1996 for Catholics of Byzantine rite in the Czech Republic is classed as another part of the Ruthenian Catholic Church. On an EWTN website the Apostolic Exarchate for Byzantine-rite Catholics in the Czech Republic is mentioned in a list of Eastern Churches, of which all the rest are autonomous particular Churches. This appears to be a mistake, since recognition within the Catholic Church of the autonomous status of a particular Church can only be granted by the Holy See (cf. canon 27 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches), which instead classifies this Church as one of the constituent local particular Churches of the autonomous (sui iuris) Ruthenian Catholic Church. |
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| nelly k | Tuesday, 7. November 2006, 19:40 Post #5 |
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My word Decon Robert , that it some list, I think a few pennys are not dropping, would I be right in saying that there are loads of RITES, that are essentially Catholic, it just so happens I was born in the UK, and the Rite we have is the Novos Ordo, sorry still cant spell it, it basically Mass to me, but some prefer certain presentation`s of the Mass than others? And they all link up to Rome and accept the Authority of the Pope? Can I ask another daft question , re The Mass as opposed to the Rite, what is the distiction, and what does Mass mean, I know that all sounds thick... honestly Iam not that thick :rolleyes: I just want to understand it better... nelly |
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| Deacon Robert | Tuesday, 7. November 2006, 21:53 Post #6 |
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Nelly, I will try to answer your questions at length. It will take some time for me to sort through the information and give a little background history. As I get the bits and pieces (relationships) straight in my thoughts I will post them to the thread. I have been meaning to study the Eastern Rites and this will give me a chance. |
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| Derekap | Tuesday, 7. November 2006, 23:32 Post #7 |
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Whilst people in the UK (and USA) debate sometimes strongly as to the correct Rite of Holy Mass and even its validity, there are several Rites of Holy Mass and liturgical languages in The Catholic Church and all are equally valid. Some Catholics even make the sign of the Cross "the other way round" and the Maronites have married priests (but not married Bishops). I'm not certain, but I think some, like Orthodox Churches, confirm children just after their Baptism. Sadly during history some Latin Catholic clergy have caused dissension by trying to make fellow Catholics make the Sign of the Cross "the proper way round" and in some cases supplant very long practised traditional Rites in favour of the Tridentine Holy Mass. There is in reality much more variety in The Catholic Church than most of us are aware of. |
| Derekap | |
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| Deacon Robert | Wednesday, 8. November 2006, 00:50 Post #8 |
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Derek, Absolutley right, there is much that is not known by Latin Rite Catholics. We of all the rites do not have married Priests, the rest do have married Priests not only the Maronites. We are also the only Rite which has separated the Sacraments of intiation, in the Eastern Rite it is called Chrismation. The Eucharistic prayers are different. The way the sacraments are given, and who is authorized to give the Sacrament is different. This is why I will only respond after sufficient study and full understanding of the particular Rite. I ultimately will try, with the help of Eastern Deacons, to give some understanding of the rest of our church. |
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| Deacon Robert | Wednesday, 8. November 2006, 21:12 Post #9 |
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I'll start with this general information which should answer many questions about Eastern Rite churches
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| Derekap | Wednesday, 8. November 2006, 21:14 Post #10 |
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Deacon Robert. Whilst we do not normally have married priests in the Latin Church, in recent years in the British Isles we have received some married clergy from the Church of England who, after some for instruction, have been ordained Catholic Priests. One I know of has two daughters and is now a Parish Priest. Apologies, if you were aware and were stating the normal rule. |
| Derekap | |
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| Gerard | Wednesday, 8. November 2006, 21:20 Post #11 |
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I like the sound of those "rites" I remember reading about a "rite" whose Mass was in Aramaic, still. Is this one of the above? Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Angus Toanimo | Wednesday, 8. November 2006, 21:41 Post #12 |
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I think it's the Maronite Rite, Gerry. |
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| Deacon Robert | Wednesday, 8. November 2006, 22:18 Post #13 |
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Derek, Yes I Knew that some C of E were Catholic Priests. In most cases in the US. The whole Anglican congregation converted. There was one Priests in my Diocese is a convert. The general rule, at least in the US , stands for the Latin Rite. In fact, the Eastern Rite churches here send their US and Canadian Priests to the churches homeland to be ordained to the Priesthood (there is one church that has recently started ordaining here in the US, but I don't remember which one) Patrick and Gerry, I was going to post this later, but since the question came up: Before Vatican II the term "Rite" was used to refer to the Church you “belonged to” by Canon Law. The suggestion was that the tradition of liturgy was all that really defined the different Churches. After Vatican II, the focus was also on the unique heritage and self-government of each Church, including the Latin Church. It varies with the different Rites, but some even have had their own Code of Canon Law. Church, Area of Origin, Language, Liturgical Rite Maronite Syrian Lebanon, Syria Arabic Maronite Rite Melkite Syrian Lebanon, Syria Arabic Byzantine Rite Chaldean Iraq Soureth (Aramaic) Romanian Hungarian Transylvania Byzantine Rite Armenian Armenian Rite Italo-Albanian Byzantine Rite Ruthenian Greek Catholic Ukranian Russian The Chaldean and Syro-Malabar Rite are local expression of the East Syrian (Assyro-Chaldean) Rite, even though the Chaldeans are centered in Iraq and the Malabars are centered in India, claiming to have been Christianized by St Thomas. My experience has been that many Malabar priests are “bi-ritual” and able to celebrate the liturgy in either the Malabar or Latin Rite. There are seven liturgical rites used by both Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches. 1. Armenian 2. Byzantine 3. Coptic 4. Ethiopian 5. East (Assyro?Chaldean) Syrian 6. West (Antiochene) Syrian 7. Maronite In general, when the numbers of Eastern Catholics organized into their own parishes is small, they relate to the local Latin Rite bishop. When the numbers are larger, one or more Eastern Catholic dioceses will be created with an Eastern Rite bishop. 1929 ¾ the decree Cum Data Fuerit was issued by Rome, requiring celibacy for Ruthenian clergy in the United States (at that time the largest group). The Maronite Church is the only Eastern Church that has no Orthodox counterpart. There is often still friction between Eastern Churches and the Latin Rite due to historical patterns of pressure and a process of “latinization” (making “Latin”). Eastern Catholic Churches are at times insultingly called “uniate” Churches, meaning that they gave in to pressure to unite with Rome. “Eastern liturgies are notable because of their length; because of their frequent use of incense; because they are always sung; and because parts of the service are hidden from view within a sanctuary enclosed by a curtain or barrier. The sumptuousness of their symbolism, vestments, and ceremonial¾the beauty of their chant, and the rich iconography of their churches¾combine to make an almost overwhelming sensible impact on the worshiper. On a deeper, interior level, these rites are characterized by their transcendental, eschatological spirit and profound sense of mystery and awe; by the richly developed trinitarian, Christological, and Marian theology of their prayers and hymns; and by their strong monastic stamp.” |
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| Deacon Robert | Wednesday, 8. November 2006, 22:22 Post #14 |
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Sorry, I couldn't get the grid in the last post to fomat correctly. |
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| nelly k | Wednesday, 8. November 2006, 22:51 Post #15 |
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This is really facinating , and I appreciate the time spent on this, what a huge church we really are, and I am not sure why we get up tight about Rite`s of Mass , would the Eastern Churches think that our Mass is inferior? We do have a Ukranian Church in Edinburgh, is it a case of Cultural diffrences? and the way time has developed Practices over the Globe and over time? I was confused about the Fact that Polish Mass is given for the Polish Community, as I thought this could lead to a kind of separation? if I have got this wrong please dont hesitate to correct me. Its a bit like a different world. nelly |
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9:15 AM Jul 11