Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
Redemptionis Sacramentum; text and discussion
Topic Started: Friday, 20. October 2006, 01:07 (1,997 Views)
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Thanks for that, Patrick. The video you posted certainly demonstrates that Holy Mass in the New Rite IS offered reverently and prayerfully. This weekend I am unable to get to any church, so I joined in the U-tube Mass. Self discipline was needed, I put cigarettes out of reach and when I was distracted by seeing a person walking by, whom I need to talk to, I remembered that one does not break off from Mass to have a private conversation. Cyber Masses are going to be a boon for people who are consistently unable to their homes. However, we who are mobile must remember, watching Mass on a computer or TV is no substitute and does not fulfil our obligation.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Independent Catholic News
 
LONDON - 20 March 2007 - 400 words


Latin Mass Society welcomes Papal document on Eucharist


The Latin Mass Society (LMS) has given a warm welcome to Pope Benedict's Papal Exhortation on the Eucharist published last Tuesday.

John Medlin, LMS General Manager, said the LMS hoped the Exhortation would play an important part in stabilising and resacralising celebrations of the new rite.

In a statement the LMS particularly welcomed the Exhortation's call for 1) a re-emphasis on silent prayer, dignity and decorum in new rite celebrations 2) the reintroduction of Latin, particularly in international celebrations and in seminary training of new priests 3) the call for the laity to pray or sing the common prayers in Latin and for Gregorian Chant to be used wherever possible 4) the emphasis on a central or prominent position for the tabernacle which should not be obscured by the celebrant's chair 5) the renewed call for Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament and Eucharistic Adoration, including perpetual adoration. All these proposals are designed to reconnect the Church to its centuries-old liturgical tradition.

John Medlin said that it is important that the Holy Father now proceeds to publish his long-anticipated motu proprio to allow a much wider celebration of the Traditional Rite. This is 1) a matter of justice to meet the needs of the rapidly-growing numbers of Traditional Catholics worldwide - in particular the young - who find the Traditional Rite more fulfilling than the new rite. 2) to establish the Traditional Rite as the 'gold standard' against which celebrations of the new rite can be measured and improved.

He also looked forward to the publication of the new ICEL English translation of the new rite which would replace the defective current translation which was inaccurate and banal as a mail order catalogue. It was hoped the new translation would be more majestic and faithful to the Latin original.

Mr Medlin concluded by saying that Pope Benedict had continued a process of restoration begun by Pope John Paul II and he was sure the bishops and priests of England and Wales would support the Pope in his call for more worthy celebrations. It was likely that many priests would be encouraged by the papal exhortation to rediscover the riches of the Latin liturgical tradition. The Latin Mass Society would do everything in its power to help the resacralisation of the new rite and to promote the Traditional Rite as the great exemplar of the Church's liturgical heritage.

Source: LMS
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Rose of York
Mar 20 2007, 10:10 PM
Quote:
 
In a statement the LMS particularly welcomed the Exhortation's call for 1) a re-emphasis on silent prayer, dignity and decorum in new rite celebrations

For some time I have been interested in the affairs of the Latin Mass Society. In one particular diocese they seemed to be getting rather militant. Maybe they, like I, have been getting fed up with the lack of reverence, by some laity. It would be a treat to kneel down quietly, to pray before Mass, without being disturbed by parishioners with clip boards, wandering around gathering names of helpers, and allocating tasks.

A return to the old rules "Silence before Holy Mass" and "If you are doing a job inside the church outside of Mass times, and a parishioner enters, and kneels or sits to pray, have some respect and leave them alone" would suit me fine.

It would be good to see all tabernacles in their rightful place - centrally, behind the altar. That reinforces the importance of the Real Presence of Christ in our churches.

Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Eve
Former Admin/Moderator
Does anyone have views on how limited should be the number of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, altar servers and readers there needs to be or should be, in a parish? Some say "minimum number necessary" and some say "those who wish to serve God in this way should have the opportunity".
Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately?
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
PJD

I don't know about the numbers; but many don't like 'same old faces'. The priests try to encourage all those appointed to take their turn, as it were, from time to time. But often enough some will not come from the back of the church and others are beaten to it by those who regularly put their feet forward first.

The parish priest doesn't like it much, encourages those not coming up to do so and refers to false humility. But it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference.

As for Altar servers; well as many as practical. Especially the very young as they have to learn in order eventually to take over.

PJD
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
The hierarchy approve the appointment of lay people to carry out certain tasks. That is their role, for which they are appointed. However I see no harm in having personal views on whether or not all persons should be given the opportunity to carry out certain tasks, just because they "want to" serve in that way. Such involvment is a privilege and service, not a right.

My opinion is, EMHCs should be used in accordance with the rules laid down in Vatican documents - ie only when necessary. As for all who wish to serve, being given an opportunity I would argue that the parish priest needs to decide who fill the roles of reader, EMHC and server Readers are proclaiming the Word of God, not fulfilling themselves. EHMCs are in a very sacred role. Servers? I have never seen the point in having so many that most have nothing to do.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Derekap
Member Avatar

My reaction is: "The more the merrier" or should I say: "The more the holier"?

So long as they are carrying out their duties well the more parishioners are willing they should be encouraged. If numbers are limited and people see the same few faces very frequently there is a danger people will think there is a clique of exclusive favourites and this may discourage new volunteers.

Also wherever possible suitable recruits should be invited when for whatever reason any volunteers resign, otherwise after a period of time there is the danger of a shortage.

In the church I attend, however, the number of Altar Servers has to be restricted to two or three because the Sanctuary is fairly small. It has also to accommodate not only the Celebrant but a Deacon and often a concelebrating Pensioner (when the latter is not a locum elsewhere. As the front benches are usually full extra Altar Servers would have nowhere to go. There is therefore a published rota like there is for Readers and EMsHC.

The Website of another parish I referred to earlier today showed that Readers and EMsHC are on duty about every five or six weeks and this is typical of the few such websites I refer to.
Derekap
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Where I live it would be impossible for the priest to take Holy Communion to all his sick parishioners, even once a month. We have EMHCs to cover groups of villages. One will go out to people living in a large village and the smaller, surrounding villages. Another will be responsible for another area. The parish is so widespread, with residential and nursing homes, a hospice and two small hospitals, there is a limit to what we can expect one priest to do. He is always available on the telephone, to people who want to discuss anything, or talk over a worry or bereavment. Some parishioners live an hour's journey from the presbytery.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
newminster
Unregistered

I'm still feeling my way round this site but I think I've finally found the 'Father Chuck' debate — and it's infinitely more terrifying than anything I was aware of in another place!
Most of the recent posters on this thread will know that I am no fan of EMHCs though so long as the Church authorises them and the bishops follow the guidance in Redemptionis Sacramentum (big 'IF' there, I must say) I am bound to accept them and will even admit that there are circumstances where a parish would be struggling without them.

Except ...
The main (liturgical) justification for using them is to avoid 'prolonging the Mass unnecessarily' (RS) So a fit PP with only 150 in his congregation shouldn't need to make use of one. Right?
But they're needed to give Communion under both kinds. A swift reading of several Vatican 2 documents will show that Communion under both kinds was never meant to be a regular event. So Father shouldn't need four EMHCs for an ordinary Sunday Mass. Right?
What about taking Holy Communion to the sick? Three EMHCs in our parish came forward for pyxes after Mass today. What is Father doing for the rest of the day? Nothing, apparently.

There are some activities which the Church has (in my view rightly) reserved to ordained ministers, be they priests or deacons, except in very exceptional circumstances.
By permitting the exception to become the norm we devalue what ought to be the norm.
My philosophy in a nutshell. Purely for those of you I haven't already bored to death about it in another place, you understand. :D
Goto Top
 
Clare
Member Avatar
Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
newminster
Apr 22 2007, 03:38 PM
The main (liturgical) justification for using them is to avoid 'prolonging the Mass unnecessarily' (RS) So a fit PP with only 150 in his congregation shouldn't need to make use of one. Right?
But they're needed to give Communion under both kinds. A swift reading of several Vatican 2 documents will show that Communion under both kinds was never meant to be a regular event. So Father shouldn't need four EMHCs for an ordinary Sunday Mass. Right?
What about taking Holy Communion to the sick? Three EMHCs in our parish came forward for pyxes after Mass today. What is Father doing for the rest of the day? Nothing, apparently.

There are some activities which the Church has (in my view rightly) reserved to ordained ministers, be they priests or deacons, except in very exceptional circumstances.
By permitting the exception to become the norm we devalue what ought to be the norm.
My philosophy in a nutshell. Purely for those of you I haven't already bored to death about it in another place, you understand. :D

Pretty much right on, newminster!

Clare.
S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
I have just had a bright idea. How about two years disciplinary training, similar to the old National Service, for all seminarians prior to ordination? A good Catholic retired drill sergeant could knock it into their heads that orders come from HQ (The Vatican), filter down the chain of command, until they get down to the Sergeants and Corporals (parish priests and their assistants) and if the rules are broken at any stage, the army falls into disarray. Breach of the rules would be a chargeable offence. A priest with more than fourteen days jankers on his charge sheet would not be eligible for promotion until he had undergone corrective training.

Worthy parish workers would be classed as private soldiers, with no authority whatsoever.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Clare
Member Avatar
Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Jankers, Rose? :blink:

Could I have that in the vernacular please?! :lol:

Clare.

S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Clare
Apr 22 2007, 04:20 PM
Jankers, Rose? :blink:

Could I have that in the vernacular please?! :lol:

Clare.

It is armed services vernacular for Restricted Privileges, which was the lowest of punishments for a chargeable offence. Fourteen days jankers meant the person could not leave the base (unless married and living in town), had to parade in front of the guardroom daily, and carry out two hours extra duties, invariably menial, like sweeping litter.

Clergy who disobey in liturgical matters should be held to account.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
newminster
Unregistered

Including, nay especially, bishops! :clare:
Goto Top
 
Derekap
Member Avatar

I forget the source but I'm sure it was authorititive but I read sometime ago an encouragement to the congregation to receive, wherever possible, Holy Communion under both kinds. As such was practised originally I see no serious objection.

Most of you know I am a retired EMHC, and therefore perhaps prejudiced, but as time goes on they may well be welcomed. Already many Sick, Housebound and Care Home-bound people would be deprived of Holy Communion if the EMsHC did not exist. My native city has eight parishes they once had about 16 priests (3, 2 or 1 per parish depending on size) - now they have seven. They are not likely to receive any more in the near future. They rely on two retired priests to cover for sickness or leave or the priest of their "twin parish". Two parishes are already looked after by one priest. Another parish priest goes into the country to offer Holy Mass on a Saturday Evening for Catholics in the area. And he is expected, if need be, to offer a later Mass in his "twin parish". The latter parish used to have three priests.
Derekap
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Archived Discussions · Next Topic »
Locked Topic