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Redemptionis Sacramentum; text and discussion
Topic Started: Friday, 20. October 2006, 01:07 (1,998 Views)
Gerard

Nelly

That is an important question.

It is in Rio De Janero, Brazil, i.e. not an anglo-saxon culture (think of the mardi-gras) and one should take this into consideration when making judgements.

I was uncomfortable with it. But, then, I belong to an anglo saxon culture.

Gerry

"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Angus Toanimo
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Gerry,

You are indeed right, it is in Rio de Janeiro. However, even if there were liturgical dancers (which at the Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament is irreverent enough anyway) it does not explain what the priest was doing waving the Blessed Sacrament around and dancing like a court jester and subjecting Our Lord to the most amazing show of mockery, irreverence and profanity I've ever seen.

When I first saw it, I thought it was some Wiccan thing and they'd stolen the monstrance from the local Church. But no, they're Catholic, with a Catholic Priest.



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Rose of York
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Patrick
Nov 23 2006, 03:46 PM
When I first saw it, I thought it was some Wiccan thing and they'd stolen the monstrance from the local Church. But no, they're Catholic, with a Catholic Priest.

Is it certain that the priest is a genuine priest, and the host in the monstrance is consecrated, or was this some disgusting mocking act, taking the mick out of worship?

Just a thought.

Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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Rose of York
Nov 23 2006, 04:44 PM
Patrick
Nov 23 2006, 03:46 PM
When I first saw it, I thought it was some Wiccan thing and they'd stolen  the monstrance from the local Church.  But no, they're Catholic, with a Catholic Priest.

Is it certain that the priest is a genuine priest, and the host in the monstrance is consecrated, or was this some disgusting mocking act, taking the mick out of worship?

Just a thought.

Rose,

I'd even wondered that myself, until I loaded up the web address in the quote in my post:

http://www.comshalom.org/

It's Catholic from what I can make out!
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Deacon Robert
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If you follow the link in Patrick's first post

www.comshalom.org

It is a Catholic Charimatic convention of some sort. I have seen some Liturgical dancing at conventions I have attended, but nothing like this, and it makes me very uncomfortable. It is usually low key and begins after the bishop or Priest presider is not in a position to stop it without further disruption of Mass. Lit. dance is not permitted in the US and I'm fairly sure the ban applies to the UK and Europe. South America and Africa are another story. Liturgical dance is part of the culture.

Sorry Rose, I guess we were posting at the same time
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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CARLO
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Gerard
Nov 23 2006, 03:31 PM
Nelly

I was uncomfortable with it. But, then, I belong to an anglo saxon culture.

Gerry

I am disgusted by it and I do not belong to an 'anglo-saxon' culture!

:angry:

De profundis
Out of the depths


CARLO
Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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CARLO
Nov 23 2006, 07:46 PM
I am disgusted by it and I do not belong to an 'anglo-saxon' culture!

CARLO

I saw it in the early hours of the morning and made no comments until now, because I was angered and revolted.

Cultural differences or not, immediately after the Last Supper Jesus went through agony, and within twenty four hours was scourged, had long hard thorns pressed into his scalp, was spat upon (and probably worse), forced to carry a tree trunk while he was bleeding and bruised, then had nails hammered between his bones.

So, why does that induce the desire to dance?

Keep the Faith!

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Gerry2
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Rose, I couldn't get through to the video - but reading the comments, I'm not sure I want to!

Gerry2
Love is as strong as death (Songs 8:6)
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nelly k

I had a think about this,
Heres my thoughts on it,I think South America has had lots of problems with extreme poverty and extreme wealth, there is I belive still a lot of Missionary work going on and while accepting Cultural diffrences, which is what I believe Gerry and I were doing, and for me I think to often some in the Church would like to discredit it and make out the whole Church is like this, the reality is this is some kind of Missionary work or Project gone very very badly wrong,
Having read about Blessed Father Damian and his Missionary work in Molikia, whilst tending to very basic health needs and batteling with the authorities for help, he did priorities the building of Churches, Converting and the saying oF Mass I think Missionary work must be really difficult and some times there will be nessesary compromises due to a Culture/Political makeup.
These wrongs have to be corrected with good guidance,and I belive with some gentleness, so more on what on earth was going on how it was allowed and how to break such practices. and prevent this misunderstanding, gross misunderstanding of the Eucharist. I think of when Jesus lost the plot in the temple some things are wrong and need sorted, and Pope John Paul, giving what for in front of Cameras to the Liberation Theologist, I think Saint Paul as well was a bit angry at times.
Joy and Celebration and exhilaration is an important part of our Faith but the Main Tenant of our faith is surely the Sacrafice that Jesus made, as described by Rose, nelly
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Rose of York
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Gerry2 a fully vested priest puts the large monstrance in a central position, possibly a makeshift altar in what looks like a nightclub or theatre. People circle around the monstrnace in a dance, using graceful movements. Towards the end the priest is holding the monstrance high, swaying it above his head while hundreds of people , mill around. It is reminiscent of the early Beattle days when the girls swooned at John, Paul, George and Ringo. There is no sense or order to any of it.
Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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I've been told that there is more of that Hallowe'en Mass, this time with the priest giving his homily and imparting the final blessing, dressed as Barney. I'm not able to show it here, but you can see it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHi_VZLtcQ8
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Rose of York
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Patrick
Dec 8 2006, 04:40 PM
this time with the priest giving his homily and imparting the final blessing, dressed as Barney.


Is he mad or is he bad?
Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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Rose of York
Dec 8 2006, 05:10 PM
Patrick
Dec 8 2006, 04:40 PM
this time with the priest giving his homily and imparting the final blessing, dressed as Barney.


Is he mad or is he bad?

A mixture of both, unfortunately and possibly!

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Derekap
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I'm sad not only about Barney but that he still has good following. I think this is one exception where I would rather miss Holy Mass if I couldn't go to another parish church. And to think people here get hot under the collar over "all" and "many" and which way the Celebrant is facing.
Derekap
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Angus Toanimo
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And now, a Mass that sticks to all the rules in RS:

[doHTML]<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nCXLfz0huD4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nCXLfz0huD4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>[/doHTML]

Praise the Lord!
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