The Sacrament of Matrimony

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The Sacrament of Matrimony; including Anulment questions
Topic Started: Wednesday, 27. September 2006, 22:25 (1,579 Views)
Richard Hannay.	Wednesday, 16. September 2009, 13:09 Post #91
Posts: 463 Group: Members Member #243 Joined: August 25, 2009	Deacon Robert Wednesday, 16. September 2009, 11:58 Richard, The Petrine prvilege can be used for a non-consumated marriage baptized Christians or a baptized party and a non baptized party and is reserved to the Roman pontiff. Thanks for the clarification. I agree it is a shame more people do not use the church more effectively when marriages are failing or have failed. As a deacon I suppose you are involved at all points of the marriage spectrum. I wish you well and am encouraged by your compassionate approach. Edited by Richard Hannay., Wednesday, 16. September 2009, 15:24.



Welshpoppy	Tuesday, 20. October 2009, 16:20 Post #92
Posts: 15 Group: Members Member #247 Joined: September 9, 2009	Deacon In my own case we did involve the church but to no avail anyway Things finally moving along and should all be finalised in 4 months so a lot quicker than we thought.



KatyA	Thursday, 12. November 2009, 01:00 Post #93
Administrator Posts: 5,413 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	CNA carries a report on a study in Journal of Happiness Studies which claims that marriage and having children increase happiness and overall life satisfaction. CNA A recent study has found that getting married and having children increase happiness and overall life satisfaction. Commenting on the results, author and TV personality Rachel Campos-Duffy told CNA that this runs counter to the prevailing culture and “reminds couples to appreciate each other and the beautiful messiness of child-rearing right here and now.” Published on Oct. 14 in the online edition of the Journal of Happiness Studies, the study, titled “Children and Life Satisfaction” emphasizes the importance of couples being married with children, versus unmarried with children. The study concluded that single, separated or cohabiting people with children reported negative experiences as opposed to married couples with children, who reported positive experiences. CNA I just love the phrase "beautiful messiness of child rearing" I must read the report and discover whether the study included couples having a houseful of young adults - that's when the really messy business usually starts. KatyA



Rose of York	Thursday, 12. November 2009, 12:19 Post #94
Administrator Posts: 14,558 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	KatyA Thursday, 12. November 2009, 01:00 CNA I just love the phrase "beautiful messiness of child rearing" I must read the report and discover whether the study included couples having a houseful of young adults - that's when the really messy business usually starts. KatyA Important point. Show me the woman who got married because she wanted a crowd of twenty something blokes living with her. Show me the man who got married because he wanted a handful of teenage daughters arguing with him. The long term is something to consider when planning to marry. A middle aged son or daughter can become totally dependent upon the parents for housing and/or in times of difficulty, financial or moral support. Many a grandparent has paid the mortgage for an unemployed son or daughter.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


KatyA	Thursday, 12. November 2009, 13:39 Post #95
Administrator Posts: 5,413 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	Comes with the territory Rose. I don't think anyone in any of those situations would want to change it.



Derekap	Thursday, 12. November 2009, 16:00 Post #96
Posts: 3,415 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: September 26, 2006	I have earlier today just read an article in a Catholic Newspaper of a few weeks ago that a priest was not required to be present at a marriage between two Catholics until The Lateran Council in the 13th Century. Such a comment was in passing so no further detail was given.
	Derekap


Joseph	Friday, 13. November 2009, 14:37 Post #97
Posts: 768 Group: Members Member #37 Joined: October 18, 2006	Well, strictly Derek, I don't think a Catholic priest is required even now. A deacon can certainly officiate and indeed anyone with the approval of the local Ordinary (Bishop) will suffice if necessary - their presence is required as an 'official witness of the Church that the correct proceedings have been carried out' and that's all, as far as I am aware. Unless a Nuptial Mass and or Blessing is required of course.
	Joseph


John Sweeney	Sunday, 15. November 2009, 23:01 Post #98
Posts: 1,850 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	Funny how real life keeps challenging us. Several years ago we were friendly with a Catholic couple whose marriage gradually disintegrated to the point where both were desperately unhappy. Fortunately there were no children. They divorced and both moved out the area. My wife kept in touch with the woman who has re-married, had children and seems very happy indeed. This morning, I bumped into the husband who was back in Wales for the autumn rugby internationals. He has re-married, no children but said that he was very happy and seemed very genuine about this. Assuming both are really happy as they say and as I believe, it makes you wonder if it would really have been better if they had stayed married and true to the Church's teaching. John



Joseph	Sunday, 15. November 2009, 23:28 Post #99
Posts: 768 Group: Members Member #37 Joined: October 18, 2006	Or had their marriage annulled and continued in their Catholic faith as well as marrying perhaps? Best of both worlds?
	Joseph


Rose of York	Sunday, 15. November 2009, 23:49 Post #100
Administrator Posts: 14,558 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	John Sweeney Sunday, 15. November 2009, 23:01 Funny how real life keeps challenging us. Several years ago we were friendly with a Catholic couple whose marriage gradually disintegrated to the point where both were desperately unhappy. Fortunately there were no children. They divorced and both moved out the area. My wife kept in touch with the woman who has re-married, had children and seems very happy indeed. This morning, I bumped into the husband who was back in Wales for the autumn rugby internationals. He has re-married, no children but said that he was very happy and seemed very genuine about this. Assuming both are really happy as they say and as I believe, it makes you wonder if it would really have been better if they had stayed married and true to the Church's teaching. John Better for whom? The individuals or society as a whole? Example speaks louder than words. Divorce breeds divorce. Whilst I appreciate this couple may have suffered, the more divorce becomes regarded as a pretty normal thing to do, the more likely others will divorce at the slightest blip in their marriage. There are women who struggle financially, knowing their lives would be easier if they traded their husbands in for a more highly paid model. There are men who never had the least inclination to be domesticated until their wives lost their health. In worldly eyes they may be "happier" if they got a fitter model. Some take their vows seriously and put their love into practise, by staying and fulfilling their sacred commitment. Some who are divorce because the marriage has no prospect of being happy, take their marriage vows seriously and learn to live the single life. What is the point in promising "till death do us part" if one does not mean it? The words can be a lie.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Rose of York	Sunday, 15. November 2009, 23:50 Post #101
Administrator Posts: 14,558 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	Joseph Sunday, 15. November 2009, 23:28 Or had their marriage annulled and continued in their Catholic faith as well as marrying perhaps? Best of both worlds? John did not say the marriage was not annulled. He made no mention of register office weddings.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Joseph	Monday, 16. November 2009, 00:08 Post #102
Posts: 768 Group: Members Member #37 Joined: October 18, 2006	Neither did I Rose :)
	Joseph


John Sweeney	Monday, 16. November 2009, 09:06 Post #103
Posts: 1,850 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	The wife re-married in a Church--I do not know the denomination as my wife is the link there and pays no attention to things like that. I don't know where the husband re-married as I didn't ask him. John



Rose of York	Tuesday, 17. November 2009, 15:01 Post #104
Administrator Posts: 14,558 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	If John's friends remarried outside the Catholic Church it is very easy, when one had managed to stay married for decades, to criticise them. I firmly believe in Catholic teaching on divorce, but I still say we should have some empathy for people who have suffered what we did not experience. I have often wondered if 90% of the failed marriages that began with a firm commitment, are actually null and void because the couple did not have sufficient full knowledge in one way or another, or one was not very mature, but appeared to be. Full knowledge - hands up the person who had full knowledge of the spouses' personality before the marriage? Does emotional incompatability make a marriage null and void? I ask this because two friends, happily married to each other, totally committed to family life, were both married before. In both cases, the couples of the first marriages faced facts that they should not have married in the first place, so they parted amicably, but have still shared responsibility for their children who are now grown up. When a child has married, the mother and father have attended the wedding together, as parents. There is respect all round. None of these people is Catholic, I just wonder sometimes if their first marriages would have been eligible for annulment.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


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