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Beatles Uk Export; Export issues
Topic Started: Aug 6 2017, 01:26 PM (552 Views)
Fab4life1973
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Hi I have the please please me stereo 7th press and A hard day's night 67/68 press that has the small size 33 above the parlophone, the only other pressings that I have seen with this size 33 are on are export issues i.e. something new without sold in the uk ,the beatles second album both with and without spelling mistake and beatles vi without sold in the uk, I was wondering if anyone has come across this and what are there thoughts on them possibly being that these uk issues ppm and ahdn where also meant for export .
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namralos
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A few records have the narrow 33. It may have been a temporary thing. Bruce and I put copies of the known pressings in our book, but there may be more out there. For the discs that are not in the CPCS series, these are not export pressings, and both CPCS-101 and CPCS-103 exist with wide 33 and narrow 33. Since most (all?) copies of Beatles VI have the narrow 33, I suspect that they may date as early as 1966.

They simply used the same typeface as "STEREO," which is a common enough error that they may have made it more than once.

If titles like PPM had been used for export, they would have been given a PPCS- prefix, so these were not export copies.
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Fab4life1973
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Thanks namralos, hopefully some others will turn up,
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servi
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namralos,Aug 6 2017
03:49 PM
If titles like PPM had been used for export, they would have been given a PPCS- prefix, so these were not export copies.

Frank, somewhat off-topic but I am convinced that not only CPCS or PPCS copies were exported. I have seen 1960's standard pressings such RS, WA and SPLHCB (with "normal" 33) that were sold in Belgian shops (they still have the original shop stickers on the sleeves). Possibly several European countries that did not manufacture LPs used UK import of standard pressings ?
I believe Holland also imported the early LPs from the UK and didn't start to press untill 1965 IIRC.
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muffmasterh
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servi,Aug 10 2017
08:53 AM
namralos,Aug 6 2017
03:49 PM
If titles like PPM had been used for export, they would have been given a PPCS- prefix, so these were not export copies.

Frank, somewhat off-topic but I am convinced that not only CPCS or PPCS copies were exported. I have seen 1960's standard pressings such RS, WA and SPLHCB (with "normal" 33) that were sold in Belgian shops (they still have the original shop stickers on the sleeves). Possibly several European countries that did not manufacture LPs used UK import of standard pressings ?
I believe Holland also imported the early LPs from the UK and didn't start to press untill 1965 IIRC.

there is no doubt servi that you are correct and that standard UK pressings were exported for sale abroad, just as many non UK albums were imported into the UK for sale, i would not call these export pressings though, just UK copies sent abroad, so in that sense i think that is what Frank may have meant.

Proof of this practice are likely the apple parlophone copies, these were specially done because the Apple label was not registered in certain countries, but it proves that standard UK copies were exported but they couldn't do this with some countries for apple for a couple of years.

Also the stereo sleeved Rubber Soul's seem to turn up only on the continent, so although not strictly export pressings seem to have found there way on a batch that were exported if that makes sense...
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servi
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What's the difference between "copies sent abroad" and "export copies" ? Anything meant for sale abroad was export product and would be registrered and taxed abroad.
In my view the majority of UK Beatles records was exported, but ONLY those that were not meant for sale in the UK itself were given a different release no. (i.e. the "USA" albums). The Apple LPs on Parlo or Odeon are obvious as the countries that that imported these had no Apple.

I therefore don't believe it is true that "If titles like PPM had been used for export, they would have been given a PPCS- prefix, so these were not export copies.", as Frank says. PPM was most probably exported to Europe but did not need PPCS markings as the target countries (maybe Belgium, maybe Holland) had Parlophone, and the UK sold PPM simply as it was.

in my view the CPCS and PPCS records are the exceptions with regard to described above, rather than "the only ones" that were exported as some seem to think....there was no need to mark most records as "export copies", only for some it was necessary but that doesn't mean that only CPCS or PPCS ones were exported. I believe that's a misconception but we would need to see EMI's files to be sure...
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servi
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Another hypothesis that I find hard to believe is that some exports (like YS) were for Gibraltrar. That region had a population of only 20,000 in 1969. Also many copies on Ebay originate from Portugal, which did not press LPs in the 1960s and had a population of 8 million. Hayes would not press for a region of 20,000 people imo, were it could possibly sell maybe a hundred copies...

And what about Hey Jude ? Was that a true export release ? It had the CPCS number in many other countries. Was the "C" for compilation ? The USA CPCS albums could be viewed as compilations from a UK point of view. Was the CPCS version of HJ sold in the UK? I have always doubted somewhat that this was a true export-only pressing like the CPCS USA albums. Many copies sold nowadays originate from the UK. People may have mistaken "CPCS" being similar to "export"...
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muffmasterh
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servi,Aug 10 2017
08:25 PM
What's the difference between "copies sent abroad" and "export copies" ? Anything meant for sale abroad was export product and would be registrered and taxed abroad.
In my view the majority of UK Beatles records was exported, but ONLY those that were not meant for sale in the UK itself were given a different release no. (i.e. the "USA" albums). The Apple LPs on Parlo or Odeon are obvious as the countries that that imported these had no Apple.

I therefore don't believe it is true that "If titles like PPM had been used for export, they would have been given a PPCS- prefix, so these were not export copies.", as Frank says. PPM was most probably exported to Europe but did not need PPCS markings as the target countries (maybe Belgium, maybe Holland) had Parlophone, and the UK sold PPM simply as it was.

in my view the CPCS and PPCS records are the exceptions with regard to described above, rather than "the only ones" that were exported as some seem to think....there was no need to mark most records as "export copies", only for some it was necessary but that doesn't mean that only CPCS or PPCS ones were exported. I believe that's a misconception but we would need to see EMI's files to be sure...

the CPCS and PPCS were the only ones specifically pressed for export though. But there are other mysteries, why did emi export sticker or release export Odeon labelled versions of some standard UK releases where the label was sanctioned like Parlophone Columbia & HMV.

There are many classical examples with this and another i saw was for it's a square world by Michael Bentine...
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muffmasterh
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servi,Aug 10 2017
08:31 PM
Another hypothesis that I find hard to believe is that some exports (like YS) were for Gibraltrar. That region had a population of only 20,000 in 1969. Also many copies on Ebay originate from Portugal, which did not press LPs in the 1960s and had a population of 8 million. Hayes would not press for a region of 20,000 people imo, were it could possibly sell maybe a hundred copies...

And what about Hey Jude ? Was that a true export release ? It had the CPCS number in many other countries. Was the "C" for compilation ? The USA CPCS albums could be viewed as compilations from a UK point of view. Was the CPCS version of HJ sold in the UK? I have always doubted somewhat that this was a true export-only pressing like the CPCS USA albums. Many copies sold nowadays originate from the UK. People may have mistaken "CPCS" being similar to "export"...

yes HJ was a true export, but it seemed to attract a lot of interest from UK retailers so it was made widespreadly available in the UK, its official UK release was not until 1979 on parlophone.
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socorro
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Especially early, regular commercial UK copies were exported in large quantities to Scandinavia, Holland, Belgium, even France (Hence the advertisement for the UK version of PPM on the early sleeve for Les Beatles, OSX 222).

You saw lots of other export activity from other countries too. For example, Stefano Cipriani notes that Italian copies of WA were exported to Belgium. I assume plenty of regular commercial copies of the German Odeon LPs were exported to Switzerland and Austria.

57th Beatle assures me that stereo copies of PPM, WTB, AHDN, and BFS were not pressed in Holland until 1968 or later (that's why the Dutch stereo copies of these four LPs exist only with "vervaardigd" rim print, which was introduced in 1968). Before then, stereo copies were imported from the UK.

I have a B&Y copy of Revolver made in India and a two box copy of Sgt. Pepper made in the UK with Assanand & Sons (Kenya) shop stickers.

I assume most or all of the Beatles LPs were sold in Belgium, Portugal, and many other countries where LPs were not pressed, and that these were imported from SOMEWHERE.

Not to mention places like Central America, the Caribbean and SE Asia, where there were regional, as opposed to national, affiliates.

Maybe a useful distinction is between "export copies" (anything exported) and "export versions" (purpose-made primarily or exclusively for export).

And yes, I am 100% convinced that Portugal was the primary destination for the Odeon YS, B&Y WA, B&Y AR.
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servi
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Yes, probably many many more standard copies were exported than true "export versions" (a good term). But some collectors see it the other way: if it does not have PPCS it can not have been exported....

What is the evidence that CPPS pressings (USA configurations and HJ) were actually exported ? For the PPCS copies it is evident as most turn up in Portugal, some with local record shop stickers, but for the CPCS I have always wondered. I know it's consensus that these were export-only copies but any convincing information seems to be lacking imo. It's simply "because everyone says so and all the books say so".... Probably the information is correct, but the CPCS number was used in other countries for domestic releases.
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Jae
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Lol, this place cracks me up! So copies exported from the UK are only export pressings if they carry the prefix CPCS or PPCS? Anything else is not an export pressing but a domestic pressing that just somehow found its way to another country? But not exported to said country, as only CPCS or PPCS pressings can claim that title?

So to differentiate we create a new 'exception' of terms - "export copies" vs "export versions", because that will make it clearer?

So we now have terms for copies pressed for export but not domestic and for those pressed for domestic consumption but also formally exported (presumably, it's not clear from the above) by EMI?

Should we now have terms for domestic pressings that 'emigrated' with their owners? Or those 'liberated' by other countries? What about those exported through the international EMI ordering system, for example ordered independently by music stores abroad? What is the 'exception' term for those?

And why do we call domestic SEA pressings (for example) that were destined for the UK "export" pressings when the reverse is not acceptable?
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Jae
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muffmasterh,Aug 11 2017
07:28 AM
servi,Aug 10 2017
08:31 PM
Another hypothesis that I find hard to believe is that some exports (like YS) were for Gibraltrar. That region had a population of only 20,000 in 1969. Also many copies on Ebay originate from Portugal, which did not press LPs in the 1960s and had a population of 8 million. Hayes would not press for a region of 20,000 people imo, were it could possibly sell maybe a hundred copies...

And what about Hey Jude ? Was that a true export release ? It had the CPCS number in many other countries. Was the "C" for compilation ? The USA CPCS albums could be viewed as compilations from a UK point of view. Was the CPCS version of HJ sold in the UK? I have always doubted somewhat that this was a true export-only pressing like the CPCS USA albums. Many copies sold nowadays originate from the UK. People may have mistaken "CPCS" being similar to "export"...

yes HJ was a true export, but it seemed to attract a lot of interest from UK retailers so it was made widespreadly available in the UK, its official UK release was not until 1979 on parlophone.

But, but, but you said that CPCS copies were exclusively for export? But now you say you could get them in the UK?!?! So does that make it an "export version" or an "export copy"? Do we need an 'exception' now for something pressed exclusively for export but then became domestic? Or does that now make HJ an import, not an export?

Btw, international countries use CPCS on domestic pressings because they have inherited the UK catalogue system. No different than adopting the UK number for any other title (ie PCS 3042 to PCSO 3042, PCSM 3042 etc...)
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Jae
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And if HJ was available in the UK then doesn't that alone shoot down any assertion that CPCS titles were "export only"?

Or did UK sellers have to import copies from the countries that received these "export versions"?
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servi
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Yes, Jae I see what you mean. What would you call the PPCS version of the White album ? It was specifically pressed for export purposes unlike let's say PPM with PCS. That one was also exported, but they simply took copies of the UK batch probably.
There is a Hollies LP from New Zealand that has a CPCS number, without a UK counterpart as far as I know (https://www.discogs.com/Hollies-Their-Twenty-Greatest-Hits/master/976774). It shows that CPCS may have been used in other countries. It's a greatest hits LP, so again a C(ompilation) ? I don't understand why CPCS in the UK is considered to be synonymous to "export", in particular for HJ. But also for the others (USA titles) I 'd love to see some convincing information other than "everyone says so".
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