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Pepper 4th Proof Useful Info; just found an unmucked about one
Topic Started: Apr 3 2017, 09:40 AM (205 Views)
muffmasterh
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just aquired a 4th proof that seems to a copy that i am sure is exactly as it should be unmucked about with.

it has some mottling spotting to the labels and was slightly stuck into the fool inner, all the elements seem to have aged together and i am happy as i can be this as it came.

as such the mother stampers could be of some interest they are

6 RMT
? ROR the numbers this side are totally indistinct, it appears to be an 0 with a backslash through it and a j to its right at 2 o'clock, of course it cannot be either of those and it shows that sometimes the mother numbers are pointless

BTW it is also a lovely copy, the mottling to the vinyls can be cleaned off and the sleeve inner and insert are some of the best i have seen for a 4th proof, actually it may be the best 4th proof i have seen and may upgrade my own copy.

just do not ask me the width of the spine lol ( on that touchy subject the spine is slightly wider than my other 4th proof but on inspection imho this is simply because the later has been more " flattened " than the other sleeve, to me they are still the same beast. )
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servi
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Pictures ??
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muffmasterh
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servi,Apr 3 2017
01:53 PM
Pictures ??

nothing unusual about it servi, its a standard 4th proof but in lovely condition, i just thought the mother stampers might help give more idea about the order of play....
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rockchef
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SNAP!!!!!!!!

The mothers and stampers are exactly the same on my copy Henry.

6, RMT and (?)ROR. That mother number on side 2 is odd. It's almost as if the first attempt
was a poor effort and left less than half an impression so the operator tried again and still
didn't get it right! I guess we'll never really know...




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muffmasterh
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rockchef,Apr 4 2017
06:58 AM
SNAP!!!!!!!!

The mothers and stampers are exactly the same on my copy Henry.

6, RMT and (?)ROR. That mother number on side 2 is odd. It's almost as if the first attempt
was a poor effort and left less than half an impression so the operator tried again and still
didn't get it right! I guess we'll never really know...

wow thats incredible, well that nails it on the 4th proof, i am sure there will be other stampers that existed for it but to have two the same like this is a defo slam dunk

now we need one of the guys here who has the calculation in their heads to work out where these are in the stamper order

a comparison to say a no day in the life copy may be useful.

Having said that we also know that many stampers were prepped for the earliest pressings so ultimately its all speculation and as a general rule i find that the stamper codes ( aside from the early ones ) usually can tell us very little but hey this time....

my no a day in the life is

2 mmp
? mmh but interestingly this has the same weird screwed up mother ie the 0 with the backslash and the j to two oclock as the 4th proof discs !!!

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servi
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Here is the stampers I have for 4th proof sleeves:
5GGP / 8GMD
1APG / 0AGH

And no "A day in the life":
2MMP/ 0MMH
3ALH / 8MRA
3_7MRR / 2MRD
3_8MMH / 9MMM
3_7MRR / 2ROO
4RTG / 1_9MM
6MMO / 7MAT
3_8MMH / 3MMM (correct ?? or 9 MMM)
3_8MMH / 9MMM

Sgt Pepper stampers were very consequently used from low to high. I have posted before on the correlation between side 1 and side 2 stampers, which correlate extremely well (there are still graphs somewhere on the forum).
Wide spine stampers posted in that recent thread (mostly early 1 or 2 letter stampers).
Given the high stampers for 4th proofs I would hypothesize that these were after the standard mono sleeves. I know Henry that your feeling is that 4th proof are after the wide spines but the high stamper numbers and the presence of PP may indicate otherwise ?
No ADITL is late, as we knew already. It was not an early error that got corrected as some say, but rather a batch of labels in use with stampers from the 3-400 series. Note same stampers on some copies.
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muffmasterh
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servi,Apr 4 2017
06:56 PM
Here is the stampers I have for 4th proof sleeves:
5GGP / 8GMD
1APG / 0AGH

And no "A day in the life":
2MMP/ 0MMH
3ALH / 8MRA
3_7MRR / 2MRD
3_8MMH / 9MMM
3_7MRR / 2ROO
4RTG / 1_9MM
6MMO / 7MAT
3_8MMH / 3MMM (correct ?? or 9 MMM)
3_8MMH / 9MMM

Sgt Pepper stampers were very consequently used from low to high. I have posted before on the correlation between side 1 and side 2 stampers, which correlate extremely well (there are still graphs somewhere on the forum).
Wide spine stampers posted in that recent thread (mostly early 1 or 2 letter stampers).
Given the high stampers for 4th proofs I would hypothesize that these were after the standard mono sleeves. I know Henry that your feeling is that 4th proof are after the wide spines but the high stamper numbers and the presence of PP may indicate otherwise ?
No ADITL is late, as we knew already. It was not an early error that got corrected as some say, but rather a batch of labels in use with stampers from the 3-400 series. Note same stampers on some copies.

i have no certainty regarding the order of the 4th proofs, its my opinion but it is based on very little and open to revision

I also place very little stock by mother stampers because of swapping, however stampers for no a day in the life may be useful cos we know they are fairly late, and its nice to get some stampers that we know belong to a 4th proof and have not been swapped.

That having been said so many mono stampers were prepared the whole exercise may be futile anyway but who knows...
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servi
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No one can be for sure about the 4th proof order Henry, me neither...your theory makes also sense.
Concerning stamper chronology: for Pepper (mono and stereo) I believe they started with 1G in May 1967 and used them more or less in ascending order. The indications for this are: 1) wide spines have low stampers, 2) no SIUK and one box copies have very high stampers, 3) side 1 and side 2 stamper numbers highly correlate (showing the process was not random but highly controlled; graphs posted elsewhere) 4) stamper numbers are often clustered for "special" versions like the labels without ADITL or the labels with the rare font.
However, I am not sure if the sample is large enough. In total I collected info on about 150 mono copies and also we are drawing conclusions on a few "no ADITL" copies. The album sold a few hundred thousand copies of course....
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muffmasterh
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servi,Apr 4 2017
07:46 PM
No one can be for sure about the 4th proof order Henry, me neither...your theory makes also sense.
Concerning stamper chronology: for Pepper (mono and stereo) I believe they started with 1G in May 1967 and used them more or less in ascending order. The indications for this are: 1) wide spines have low stampers, 2) no SIUK and one box copies have very high stampers, 3) side 1 and side 2 stamper numbers highly correlate (showing the process was not random but highly controlled; graphs posted elsewhere) 4) stamper numbers are often clustered for "special" versions like the labels without ADITL or the labels with the rare font.
However, I am not sure if the sample is large enough. In total I collected info on about 150 mono copies and also we are drawing conclusions on a few "no ADITL" copies. The album sold a few hundred thousand copies of course....

for sure 1G and singles letters are the earliest for pepper but then it gets messy, they would have prepped many stampers for use all at the same time, some may have even been left on the shelf, for example look at 1G White albums, these seem to crop up on later pressings with emi recording labels, the mono i found recently even had a 1G matrix 1 on one side and a 1G matrix 2 on the other.......go figure that one !

as such i have little faith in mono stampers being used in strict order since so many were prepped, stereo is a different matter as the stampers required were so much fewer up until the WA and then it gets messy again as mono/stereo ratio is roughly 50/50
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