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German White Album In White Vinyl
Topic Started: Apr 7 2016, 03:03 PM (401 Views)
voxish
Level 3
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Just saying I've finally got one of these.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-BEATLES-Whit...cvip=true&rt=nc

The sound is superb, very different to the standard stereo. The main thing for me is the separation and clarity of the different instruments and voices. Even some of the harsh tracks actually sound OK and interesting (ish) and I'm noticing some subtle different things which I hadn't before.

I think this is a mid-80s press and it has an HMV Import sticker on the front. It's very clear and as described I think it's hardly been played, minimal surface noise. The serial number starts 192-, I also have an early 70s 172- German press which is fantastic-sounding as well.



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servi
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Nice one. A very sought after pressing. Still looking for an affordable copy...
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AurelianDE
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voxish,Apr 7 2016
04:03 PM
The sound is superb, very different to the standard stereo. The main thing for me is the separation and clarity of the different instruments and voices.
...
I'm noticing some subtle different things which I hadn't before.

It's amazing, isn't it? I only bought one recently and wasn't sure if hifi-enthusiasts who kept on rhapsodising about it ('reference pressing' etcetera) were not exaggerating a bit. But you're absolutely right: it's the separation thats so great. All that jargon ('instruments are allowed to breathe', 'there's space around each instrument', 'there's a three-dimensional stage') suddenly made sense.

I think you bought it at a decent price. (At 64 Pounds that would have been an affordable copy, wouldn't it, servi? I don't think you could buy it much cheaper unless you find somebody who doesn't know what he's selling. You don't want a copy that's been played too much because sound is what matters here.) The covers are a bit flimsier than 1st generation German sleeves and a bit of yellowing is unavoidable.

A tiny correction: The catalogue number is 1C 172 ..., however, not 192 .... . The analogue DMM was made near the end of 1984/beginning of 1985 and I believe they started numbering at 100,000 (6-digit numbers). It's not clear how many copies were made. What many people don't realise is that all later DMM copies, whether British or German or elsewhere, were sourced from the CD digital files of 1987, not from the analogue masters. And that is why they sound crisp, but at the same time a bit lifeless.
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Garfield
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AurelianDE,Apr 7 2016
11:54 PM


A tiny correction: The catalogue number is 1C 172 ..., however, not 192 .... . The analogue DMM was made near the end of 1984/beginning of 1985 and I believe they started numbering at 100,000 (6-digit numbers). It's not clear how many copies were made. What many people don't realise is that all later DMM copies, whether British or German or elsewhere, were sourced from the CD digital files of 1987, not from the analogue masters. And that is why they sound crisp, but at the same time a bit lifeless.

That's not correct, german DMM issues between 1985 and 1988 on black vinyl were mastered from analogue tapes.
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voxish
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Garfield,Apr 8 2016
06:25 AM
AurelianDE,Apr 7 2016
11:54 PM


A tiny correction: The catalogue number is 1C 172 ..., however, not 192 .... . The analogue DMM was made near the end of 1984/beginning of 1985 and I believe they started numbering at 100,000 (6-digit numbers). It's not clear how many copies were made. What many people don't realise is that all later DMM copies, whether British or German or elsewhere, were sourced from the CD digital files of 1987, not from the analogue masters. And that is why they sound crisp, but at the same time a bit lifeless.

That's not correct, german DMM issues between 1985 and 1988 on black vinyl were mastered from analogue tapes.

Oops yes, my bad; this imported white vinyl DMM 1984 is 1C-172-04 173/4
the Deutscher Schall Platten Preis early 70s black vinyl is 1C-192-04 173/4

Both sleeves have ELECTROLA GESELLSCHAFT Koln-Braunsfeld on the inside under the track list. The early sleeve is laminated and numbered but the later import sleeve is just shiny-ish white and no number.

For comparison the sleeve of my 1980s UK black vinyl DMM (barcode but no Apple logo) has a box with 'This album has been Direct Metal Mastered from a digitally remastered original tape for the best quality sound reproduction' (or something like that, from memory). It has a non-laminated finish the same as the German white vinyl edition. This pressing has a very bright and precise sound which (while very clean) isn't anything like as nice to listen to as the German ones.
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AurelianDE
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Garfield,Apr 8 2016
07:25 AM
That's not correct, german DMM issues between 1985 and 1988 on black vinyl were mastered from analogue tapes.

Garfield, I know, and if I've correctly understood the information you provided in the other thread, then all those pressings did not advertise the fact that they were DMM, either on the cover or on the label.

I was referring to the DMM issues 1987 and later that had a red-and-black sticker saying they were 'now digitally remastered' and/or had that boxed small print saying they were digitally sourced (the one voxish mentioned).

Voxish, which sleeve is it that you call the 'later import sleeve' without a number? The imported copy you bought (if that's the one in the link!) does have a number. I can't quite make out what it is, but it seems to be in the 103 or 108 thousands.

My 1978 German copy on white vinyl is also numbered.
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Garfield
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AurelianDE,Apr 8 2016
08:15 PM
Garfield,Apr 8 2016
07:25 AM
That's not correct, german DMM issues between 1985 and 1988 on black vinyl were mastered from analogue tapes.

Garfield, I know, and if I've correctly understood the information you provided in the other thread, then all those pressings did not advertise the fact that they were DMM, either on the cover or on the label.

I was referring to the DMM issues 1987 and later that had a red-and-black sticker saying they were 'now digitally remastered' and/or had that boxed small print saying they were digitally sourced (the one voxish mentioned).

Voxish, which sleeve is it that you call the 'later import sleeve' without a number? The imported copy you bought (if that's the one in the link!) does have a number. I can't quite make out what it is, but it seems to be in the 103 or 108 thousands.

My 1978 German copy on white vinyl is also numbered.

I say it again, based on the EMI documentation the german digital sourced LPs were first in the shops by 31.5.1989 and not earlier.
So it make no sense, to repeat the 1987 date again and again, it's still wrong. Even the UK CDs were released over a time period from 1987 to 1988 with the LP breadbin box following after the release of PM in autumn 1988.
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voxish
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AurelianDE,Apr 8 2016
08:15 PM
Garfield,Apr 8 2016
07:25 AM
That's not correct, german DMM issues between 1985 and 1988 on black vinyl were mastered from analogue tapes.

Garfield, I know, and if I've correctly understood the information you provided in the other thread, then all those pressings did not advertise the fact that they were DMM, either on the cover or on the label.

I was referring to the DMM issues 1987 and later that had a red-and-black sticker saying they were 'now digitally remastered' and/or had that boxed small print saying they were digitally sourced (the one voxish mentioned).

Voxish, which sleeve is it that you call the 'later import sleeve' without a number? The imported copy you bought (if that's the one in the link!) does have a number. I can't quite make out what it is, but it seems to be in the 103 or 108 thousands.

My 1978 German copy on white vinyl is also numbered.


Oh yes, it does have a number (but the ink has worn away or was never there)! 103595

There are two stickers on the front - top right from HMV saying 'IMPORT' and one top left saying 'Pressung Weiss DMM'.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-BEATLES-Whit...cvip=true&rt=nc
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AurelianDE
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Garfield,Apr 9 2016
07:38 AM
I say it again, based on the EMI documentation the german digital sourced LPs were first in the shops by 31.5.1989 and not earlier.
So it make no sense, to repeat the 1987 date again and again, it's still wrong.

Good grief! Yes, I forgot for a moment that the digital sourced German LPs came in 1989, mea culpa and many apologies, but that's not the issue!

When I mentioned DMM issues I was talking about records that had DMM on the label or in the small print and was not talking about those that were DMM without advertising the fact. As far as I know there are just three albums that were direct metal mastered from analogue sources: the White, the Red, and the Blue Album. *(Edit: Note)

When I mentioned 'DMM issues dating from 1987 or later', referring to DMM albums from anywhere in the world, I was playing it safe. 1987 is the earliest possible date for albums being made from digital files, and I simply don't know when precisely an album such as the UK With the Beatles or a Japanese Rubber Soul or any other was published with the blurb 'This album has been direct metal mastered from a digitally re-mastered original tape ...' Of course they appeared from 1987 onwards.

My point was that many people who buy a DMM album for reasons of sound and high fidelity are not aware of the fact that they will usually get a CD file that is re-converted into analogue.

I'm sorry if that wasn't quite clear from the start.


@voxish: Numbers on German White Albums were either printed in a dark grey or 'blind stamped', that is, debossed without colour. So the ink was never there on your album. And if I'm correct in guessing that they started with 100,000, yours is a fairly early copy. I read somewhere that some people estimated that 250,000 copies were made, but that's ridiculous. The numbering is in six digits anyway.



* Note (edited in): In order to avoid further misunderstandings: When I say 'only three' I mean 'there were only three analogue sourced albums that had DMM on the label', of course.
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voxish
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AurelianDE,Apr 10 2016
09:54 PM
Garfield,Apr 9 2016
07:38 AM
I say it again, based on the EMI documentation the german digital sourced LPs were first in the shops by 31.5.1989 and not earlier.
So it make no sense, to repeat the 1987 date again and again, it's still wrong.

Good grief! Yes, I forgot for a moment that the digital sourced German LPs came in 1989, mea culpa and many apologies, but that's not the issue!

When I mentioned DMM issues I was talking about records that had DMM on the label or in the small print and was not talking about those that were DMM without advertising the fact. As far as I know there are just three albums that were direct metal mastered from analogue sources: the White, the Red, and the Blue Album.

When I mentioned 'DMM issues dating from 1987 or later', referring to DMM albums from anywhere in the world, I was playing it safe. 1987 is the earliest possible date for albums being made from digital files, and I simply don't know when precisely an album such as the UK With the Beatles or a Japanese Rubber Soul or any other was published with the blurb 'This album has been direct metal mastered from a digitally re-mastered original tape ...' Of course they appeared from 1987 onwards.

My point was that many people who buy a DMM album for reasons of sound and high fidelity are not aware of the fact that they will usually get a CD file in that is re-converted into analogue.

I'm sorry if that wasn't quite clear from the start.


@voxish: Numbers on German White Albums were either printed in a dark grey or 'blind stamped', that is, debossed without colour. So the ink was never there on your album. And if I'm correct in guessing that they started with 100,000, yours is a fairly early copy. I read somewhere that some people estimated that 250,000 copies were made, but that's ridiculous. The numbering is in six digits anyway.


Given that this album is definitely from 1984/5 do you mean that this is DMM from an original analogue source?

Has anyone got any data on the number of these albums made (250,000 seems high)? What are the lowest and highest numbers people have seen? I've been looking for this particular version for quite a long time and they seem to come up extremely infrequently (please feel free to contradict me, Henry!)


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AurelianDE
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Given that this album is definitely from 1984/5 do you mean that this is DMM from an original analogue source?


Yes, that's the whole point of what I was saying.

I don't know how many copies were pressed, and estimates vary considerably. Surely not 250,000, that's quite unrealistic for 1985 even if a sizeable number of copies were exported. Perhaps somebody else knows?
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