Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Beatles Collecting. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Two Virgins Mono Sleeve
Topic Started: Apr 1 2016, 08:47 AM (1,808 Views)
muffmasterh
Level 7
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
5209,Jun 16 2017
02:08 PM
The label change was a bit earlier, yet within the laminated covers' period. They have pressed two batches of these (new labels, old covers. black inners, stampers T/GP and H/L). Obviously they had a stock of labels left which they decided to use later.
Servi, if you post a good scan of your "patents" inner sleeve of your non-laminated cover of the TV (others are HIGHLY welcome to do so as well), probably Henry (Muffmasterh) would define a time period for it. These "patents" inners have various ways of cutting corners, typical for time periods. I'll also try to make a guess.
Yes, Cummings was in Ringo's band for a short time but I had no chance to see him. But I was lucky to see Ringo in St.Petersburg in 1998. All-Star Band's keyboards were occupied by Gary Brooker by then.

sadly there are so many patents number sleeves in use at the same time the time frame is not linear for them, however a pic is useful I can certainly identify it and may be able to affect a date for it....

Again i have never seen a TV in a pat number inner but if it was pressed in late 69 then thats what you would get for sure.

I am wondering if these late copies that i have never seen were pressed primarily for the continent ?? a bit like the stereo sleeve RS's , with a small pressing run ( even if its more than 5000 its still small ) that might explain why i am never seeing any of these.

BTW a mono sleeved stereo is currently for sale by a dealer at spitalfields...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
servi
Member Avatar
Level 5
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
5209,Jun 16 2017
02:08 PM
The label change was a bit earlier, yet within the laminated covers' period. They have pressed two batches of these (new labels, old covers. black inners, stampers T/GP  and H/L). Obviously they had a stock of labels left which they decided to use later.
Servi, if you post a good scan of your "patents" inner sleeve of your non-laminated cover of the TV (others are HIGHLY welcome to do so as well), probably Henry (Muffmasterh) would define a time period for it. These "patents" inners have various ways of cutting corners, typical for time periods. I'll also try to make a guess.
Yes, Cummings was in Ringo's band for a short time but I had no chance to see him. But I was lucky to see Ringo in St.Petersburg in 1998. All-Star Band's keyboards were occupied by Gary Brooker by then.

Below is the inner sleeve. Yes, it makes sense that they had some labels left of this "big seller".
@Henry, several non-laminated TV sleeves have surfaced (Garfield has one as well) all with the text on the front. Not mono sleeves, but a second batch of stereo sleeves. It is completely different from any Apple or EMI sleeve I know of, so it may have been printed at some other company than G&L due to its controversy. What do you think, 5209 ? Or do you know of any other UK sleeves like this one ?

Posted Image

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
servi
Member Avatar
Level 5
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
muffmasterh,Jun 16 2017
02:36 PM
5209,Jun 16 2017
02:08 PM
The label change was a bit earlier, yet within the laminated covers' period. They have pressed two batches of these (new labels, old covers. black inners, stampers T/GP  and H/L). Obviously they had a stock of labels left which they decided to use later.
Servi, if you post a good scan of your "patents" inner sleeve of your non-laminated cover of the TV (others are HIGHLY welcome to do so as well), probably Henry (Muffmasterh) would define a time period for it. These "patents" inners have various ways of cutting corners, typical for time periods. I'll also try to make a guess.
Yes, Cummings was in Ringo's band for a short time but I had no chance to see him. But I was lucky to see Ringo in St.Petersburg in 1998. All-Star Band's keyboards were occupied by Gary Brooker by then.

sadly there are so many patents number sleeves in use at the same time the time frame is not linear for them, however a pic is useful I can certainly identify it and may be able to affect a date for it....

Again i have never seen a TV in a pat number inner but if it was pressed in late 69 then thats what you would get for sure.

I am wondering if these late copies that i have never seen were pressed primarily for the continent ?? a bit like the stereo sleeve RS's , with a small pressing run ( even if its more than 5000 its still small ) that might explain why i am never seeing any of these.

BTW a mono sleeved stereo is currently for sale by a dealer at spitalfields...

Yes, most seem to appear outside of Europe, mine was from Germany. There was another one on Ebay like this, also from Germany. Makes sense that these were for Europe. Holland was the only country there that pressed this one in the sixties (Apple Negram pressing), possibly because it has always been a progressive country and because Lennon stayed a week in Amsterdam in 1969 ?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
5209
Level 1
[ * ]
This inner sleeve is very common for EMI for years 1970-72 (maybe late 1969 as well). IMO it was the most common EMI inner in 1970. I've never seen such cutting style for inners from 1973 and later (but that does not mean they cannot exist!)
I have the same in my Sentimental Journey and Thick As A Brick 1st press copies to name a few.

Important is the combination of PATENT NO. (not noS!), MADE IN ENGLAND in small letters, black font colour and cutting style.
Sorry, my Englsh is not good enough but I'll try: look at the points on the top and on the bottom where curved lines change to straight lines (or points where cutting ends). Follow the curve and you see that before transforming to straight line it makes a kind of zigzag.

Posted Image

Henry, what would you say?

As for the cover itself I can't say anything. It is obviously not as accurately built as the majority of UK covers I've seen but there were many small printing companies in the UK in the 70ies I guess. And it may be European as well - most auctions for such covers are from Europe, not from the UK so an export version theory makes sense indeed.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
servi
Member Avatar
Level 5
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Thanks, great info !
In which country are you 5209 ?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
muffmasterh
Level 7
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
5209,Jun 16 2017
04:26 PM
This inner sleeve is very common for EMI for years 1970-72 (maybe late 1969 as well). IMO it was the most common EMI inner in 1970. I've never seen such cutting style for inners from 1973 and later (but that does not mean they cannot exist!)
I have the same in my Sentimental Journey and Thick As A Brick 1st press copies to name a few.

Important is the combination of PATENT NO. (not noS!), MADE IN ENGLAND in small letters, black font colour and cutting style.
Sorry, my Englsh is not good enough but I'll try: look at the points on the top and on the bottom where curved lines change to straight lines (or points where cutting ends). Follow the curve and you see that before transforming to straight line it makes a kind of zigzag.

Posted Image

Henry, what would you say?

As for the cover itself I can't say anything. It is obviously not as accurately built as the majority of UK covers I've seen but there were many small printing companies in the UK in the 70ies I guess. And it may be European as well - most auctions for such covers are from Europe, not from the UK so an export version theory makes sense indeed.

yes this inner is most common on original issues of Let it Be and McCartney so April/May 1970 is a common date for it, but it may not be restricted to May 1970 just that that is a common date thread for it, so i would put my head on the block and say spring 1970.

It is also seen on many EMI Lp's of the period and on some side open WA's.

It has a 1969 variant which is identical except that it has patents applied for on it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
5209
Level 1
[ * ]
St.Petersburg, Russia.

Exactly, Henry, my 1st McCartney 1U/2U (earliest commercially available copy) has the same inner! EMI inners had so many cutting styles throughout the 70-ies but this one is very distinctive, you can't mix it with any other. As for the rest of these, unfortunately it's impossible to associate each cutting style with its time period. At least I would not dare so far.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
muffmasterh
Level 7
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
5209,Jun 16 2017
08:29 PM
St.Petersburg, Russia.

Exactly, Henry, my 1st McCartney 1U/2U (earliest commercially available copy) has the same inner! EMI inners had so many cutting styles throughout the 70-ies but this one is very distinctive, you can't mix it with any other. As for the rest of these, unfortunately it's impossible to associate each cutting style with its time period. At least I would not dare so far.

and 2u 2u's have them as well since the 1u 2u was pressed in small numbers
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1970grave
Level 2
[ *  * ]
Yes, I can confirm that I have the laminated and un-laminated versions of the TWO VIRGINS cover with MONO discs.
I must check the two for correlation of information in this thread.
From recollection, I too was doubtful at first, but the fact that the covers are identical in size (a little smaller than standard issue BEATLES LP's) and the inner flaps are the exact same length (very long - from memory around 25mm).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
servi
Member Avatar
Level 5
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
WHAT, you have two mono discs ??????????? That's amazing !! One of the rarest commercial LPs ever....I assume you mean STEREO discs, right ?
Would love to see pictures of the mono labels.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1970grave
Level 2
[ *  * ]
Yes, I have 2 copies of the mono
one has a little damage to Side 1 and has been repaired the other is nearly MINT
The details for the 2 disc are as follows
I cannot see any variation in the layout of the label both have KT tax code to centre of label

Matrix APCOR 2A-1 NO EMI Stamps at 3 o'clcok 1 Mother
Matrix APCOR 2B-1 NO EMI stamps at 3 o'clock 2 mother

Matrix APCOR 2A-1 NO EMI Stamps at 3 o'clcok 1 Mother
Matrix APCOR 2B-1 NO EMI stamps at 3 o'clock 2 mother (maybe a 1 - hard to tell)

One has a Black original Apple inner the other has a non standard white paper sleeve

Both the laminated and the un-laminated have inner flaps at 14mm
the sleeve dimensions are exactly the same
The laminated version is a lot whiter and the un-laminated is more a cream colour - maybe from smoke not sure (didn't smell of smoke)

OF NOTE: the laminate version is like cling film laminate and although my version if pristine with no cuts the laminate has separated from the cover in places and this may be the reason why they stopped using this poor production design
http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/grave197...y/Two%20Virgins

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
5209
Level 1
[ * ]
Thanks a lot for posting the picture of the two covers together, 1970grave. Chances are high that both were made by the same printer.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
servi
Member Avatar
Level 5
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Wow, it is really something to own a mono TV, but two copies that is unbelievable....
My mono cover (unlaminated) also has a more cream colour, but the inner flaps are smaller.
Laminate separation is also a problem with some stereo covers btw.
Thanks for posting these pictures ! If you ever think of selling a mono, let me know :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1970grave
Level 2
[ *  * ]
everything is open to offers or swaps
i still have a 'WANT' list
although, i know Henry has at least 4 items that's on my list
send me your email and i'll send over Servi
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
5209
Level 1
[ * ]
Following the discussion about stampers (though slightly off topic maybe, anyway I'm posting this here as this thread is alive):
I've collected all the information available regarding stampers for LIFE WITH THE LIONS and there's a very curious detail. Among the earliest stampers' combinations confirmed for this LP have been the following combinations:
1-G/1-G,
1-G/1-R,
1-G/1-A,
1-G/1-M
That leads us to conclusion that definitely:
- either not both stampers were replaced in a record press at the same time but only one might be replaced while his "partner" kept on working within a given pressing job
- or stampers could be re-used SEVERAL times (used, then mounted off the press, stored and after some time affixed to the press again for another run). I knew this was possible once but four (!) cycles as proven above...

Whatever is the truth it's clear now that a stamper's life or "capacity" (how many records it may produce) is VERY indefinite. The example above shows us that stamper 1-G for side A may have produced four times more copies than say 1-G for side B.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Albums · Next Topic »
Add Reply