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Two Virgins Mono Sleeve
Topic Started: Apr 1 2016, 08:47 AM (1,809 Views)
yarvelling
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Garfield,Apr 5 2016
01:36 PM
namralos,Apr 5 2016
11:53 AM
My mistake, Garfield.
I saw quite a few pages like this:
http://haendler.autoscout24.de/kfz-technink-hansinger
http://www.tus-schleiden.de/album/Ju%20Jut...2011/index.html

I thought maybe it meant "technology" or (more broadly) "equipment."
https://www.dsi.uni-stuttgart.de/aktuelles/...otostrecke.html

As to the number 5000, the guy who worked at Hayes said that they could press up to 10000 copies per stamper and that 5000 was an average.  If a stamper broke, of course, it would be tossed.

Yes, Technik means technology.

the technink may be a spelling mistake, you can find several on the net.

The name of 'Technink' sounds to me to be more of a play-on-words...... technology and ink!
Ideal for a modern printing company ;)
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namralos
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Nevertheless, the Hayes employee says that they pressed 5000 or more copies using every stamper. Sometimes as many as 10000. Now, not every stamper was suitable. You may have seen a stamper numbered 450, but have you seen ALL 450 stampers?
That's why I asked whether all of the 13 stampers were known on Two Virgins. If the only known stampers are 1, 5, 10, 12, and 13, then there were more like 25000 copies originally. Were some destroyed? That's possible, too. In the USA they were destroyed, but there were also a lot more of them. Only Bestway copies seem to be tougher to find.
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muffmasterh
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namralos,Apr 6 2016
12:00 PM
Nevertheless, the Hayes employee says that they pressed 5000 or more copies using every stamper. Sometimes as many as 10000. Now, not every stamper was suitable. You may have seen a stamper numbered 450, but have you seen ALL 450 stampers?
That's why I asked whether all of the 13 stampers were known on Two Virgins. If the only known stampers are 1, 5, 10, 12, and 13, then there were more like 25000 copies originally. Were some destroyed? That's possible, too. In the USA they were destroyed, but there were also a lot more of them. Only Bestway copies seem to be tougher to find.

and indeed the missing stampers must be the explanation because if we had 5000-10000 per each theoretical stamper we have way way more than actual sales.

as such many many stampers must have got damaged either during or prior to use, this would then bring the theoretical average down to something like 1500.

for every stamper than pressed 5-10km there must have been two or three that pressed fewer or even none.
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servi
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namralos,Apr 6 2016
12:00 PM
Nevertheless, the Hayes employee says that they pressed 5000 or more copies using every stamper. Sometimes as many as 10000. Now, not every stamper was suitable. You may have seen a stamper numbered 450, but have you seen ALL 450 stampers?
That's why I asked whether all of the 13 stampers were known on Two Virgins. If the only known stampers are 1, 5, 10, 12, and 13, then there were more like 25000 copies originally. Were some destroyed? That's possible, too. In the USA they were destroyed, but there were also a lot more of them. Only Bestway copies seem to be tougher to find.

Good point indeed, Frank ! We could possibly look up all stampers for TV on popsike. For Sgt Pepper it's too much..
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muffmasterh
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servi,Apr 6 2016
12:37 PM
namralos,Apr 6 2016
12:00 PM
Nevertheless, the Hayes employee says that they pressed 5000 or more copies using every stamper. Sometimes as many as 10000. Now, not every stamper was suitable. You may have seen a stamper numbered 450, but have you seen ALL 450 stampers?
That's why I asked whether all of the 13 stampers were known on Two Virgins. If the only known stampers are 1, 5, 10, 12, and 13, then there were more like 25000 copies originally.  Were some destroyed?  That's possible, too.  In the USA they were destroyed, but there were also a lot more of them.  Only Bestway copies seem to be tougher to find.

Good point indeed, Frank ! We could possibly look up all stampers for TV on popsike. For Sgt Pepper it's too much..

AGREED , wouldn't it have be great...trouble is we'd never be sure whether a stamper was missing because somebody hasn't posted one yet or it was never used...shame
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namralos
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If no one has ever posted a certain stamper (at least in the past ten years), there is a good chance that it was not used or broke early. Consider how many different "Love Me Do"/"PS I Love You" stampers we are aware of. On the rare side, we know that only G and R were used on the stereo "gold label" PPM.

It's also possible -- for THAT album -- that a certain number of stampers were made initially, but only a few were used.
Tech #1: "It's a Lennon solo album. People will buy it."
Tech #2: "I just heard it. Destroy the metal parts."

I would really like to know who Technink was, though. I am still unable to find reference to any other product that they ever made.
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muffmasterh
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namralos,Apr 6 2016
10:54 PM
If no one has ever posted a certain stamper (at least in the past ten years), there is a good chance that it was not used or broke early. Consider how many different "Love Me Do"/"PS I Love You" stampers we are aware of. On the rare side, we know that only G and R were used on the stereo "gold label" PPM.
.

AND WE also know many were left on the shelf and used/re-used years later...

and that also goes to how few stereo B&G's were pressed in relation to any 45, LMD also probably sold more throughout 1963 than it did in its first run in 1962 as the Beatles became a phenomenon and back orders rushed in, they would have likely needed more stampers to cope with that demand.
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5209
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Confirmed pairs of stampers found on stereo Two Virgins. Icluded are only combinations which have been mentioned at least twice by two different sources.
Label type 1 (equal spacing between the three lines to the left of the hole)
1-R/1-R
1-G/1-O
1-A/1-M
1-O/1-O
1-P/1-P
1-GD/1-T
Label type 2 (space between 33 1/3 and Mfd.... is larger than that between Mfd... and SIDE 1)
1-L/1-H
1-T/1-GP
1-GR/1-GA
1-GR/1-GM

Correlation between stampers' combination and label type is absolutely strict, each combination is unique to one label type.

2 or 3 more combinations may be found mentioned on the Web but most likely these are mistakes: one might have forgotten to use a magnifying glass to read these. Alternatively, I've found mentioning of 1-H/1-L for example but in this case most likely it's just a mix of sides. Certainly, I may have missed some...

Thus we have 14 as he highest stamper number but only 10 combinations were used. And one stamper, 1-GR for side A was "coupled" twice: with GA and with MG for B-side. An interesting picture, isn't it?
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servi
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Thanks, really interesting ! Still a lot of questions left....

BTW, the recent Lennonology book mentions Nov 3 1968 as mots likely recording date. All previous books say Nov 19. The recording was made the night following the day that Lennon announced "I am Jesus Christ" to the other Beatles and the Apple crew.

And welcome to the forum, we love members who love details like you posted !
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5209
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Thank you for your kind words.
I think it's more or less clear now at least regarding the stereo TV versions. I can add that 1-L and 1-T... records yet came in "old" laminated stereo covers and they have flat label profile. 1-GR... labels have a smooth perimeter ridge (these ridges were introduced in early 1970 at the EMI) and they already come with non-laminated mono covers (of 11 copies documented only one had a stereo cover so may be disregarded) and white patent (or patentS?) inners (black inners for them are definite swaps for getting higher price).
I am only confused by the fact you said your late mono cover is glossy. At least it does not look so on the large photo in the 1st post. Were there really true glossy covers in the UK around 1970?
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servi
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True, the later labels have a ridge, see below. Mine has a Patent inner.
The later mono sleeve is somewhat glossy and has some "texture" as can be seen in the picture.
Yes, it quite clear now. Your chronology makes sense, based on stamper number, label ridge and inner sleeves ! Do you think that the later pressing is rarer ? And would it be possible that some early stereo pressings got a laminated mono sleeve ? There seem to be a lot more laminated mono sleeves than there are mono LPs....
What do you collect 5209 ?

Posted Image
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5209
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Yes, the later pressing is definitely rarer, 1:5 approximately. And only two combinations of stampers are typical for it.
I've found 5 stereo copies in laminated mono sleeves, I believe these sets are"honest".
Absolutely correct, there are much more early mono covers than mono LPs. I've found only 5 mono records in the popsike database. One may dig deeper (the whole Web) but I don't think it makes sense.

Like the majority of people on this forum I am a Beatles' fan. I'm also a dedicated fan of The Guess Who. Generally I collect good LPs from 1965-75 with few exceptions. Don't think anybody would argue that those were the best years for music (only best years of jazz were a bit earlier).
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servi
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Thanks !
What I don't understand is why this pressing still has "Sold in UK", despite being a 1970 or later pressing (judged by the ridge and higher stampers). They obviously made a new label (label style 2) but left the SIUK text. Other LPs from this period exist with and without SIUK (White Album, Wonderwall, Life with the lions, Electronic Sound).i

NB I am not familiar with most of the Guess Who songs, but I saw Burton Cummings playing live with Ringo Starr about 20 years ago.
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5209
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The label change was a bit earlier, yet within the laminated covers' period. They have pressed two batches of these (new labels, old covers. black inners, stampers T/GP and H/L). Obviously they had a stock of labels left which they decided to use later.
Servi, if you post a good scan of your "patents" inner sleeve of your non-laminated cover of the TV (others are HIGHLY welcome to do so as well), probably Henry (Muffmasterh) would define a time period for it. These "patents" inners have various ways of cutting corners, typical for time periods. I'll also try to make a guess.
Yes, Cummings was in Ringo's band for a short time but I had no chance to see him. But I was lucky to see Ringo in St.Petersburg in 1998. All-Star Band's keyboards were occupied by Gary Brooker by then.
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muffmasterh
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5209,Jun 12 2017
10:40 PM
Thank you for your kind words.
I think it's more or less clear now at least regarding the stereo TV versions. I can add that 1-L and 1-T... records yet came in "old" laminated stereo covers and they have flat label profile. 1-GR... labels have a smooth perimeter ridge (these ridges were introduced in early 1970 at the EMI) and they already come with non-laminated mono covers (of 11 copies documented only one had a stereo cover so may be disregarded) and white patent (or patentS?) inners (black inners for them are definite swaps for getting higher price).
I am only confused by the fact you said your late mono cover is glossy. At least it does not look so on the large photo in the 1st post. Were there really true glossy covers in the UK around 1970?

the EMI ridge dates to late 1969 ( around Abbey Road ) till mid ish 73

Firstly i have never see a UK non laminated cover ever so i would love to see one, but it is interesting that the stampers indicate a far larger number pressed that the oft quoted 5000 but they clearly printed enough labels in 1968 to last through but as i have never seen an EMI ridged copy of TV before so thats really new to me.

I do know however that the pressing run for life with the lions - and Electronic Sounds for that matter was much longer - which is a surprise to say the least, both were still being pressed until at least 1972 and i have seen an apple compliments card dated 1974 confirming they still have a copy for order ( and enclosing that order ).
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