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Another "love Me Do" Single Question; Ringo on Drums??
Topic Started: Aug 13 2015, 11:58 PM (1,167 Views)
admiral halsey
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I have just checked my 1963 black labels and they are all 1N. However, I clearly remember listening with two friends to original black and red label copies to compare them around thirty years ago. We all definitely agreed that they were different. IIRC, that black label copy is still in my friends possession. I'll ask him to check the matrix number.

AH
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britinvasion64
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AurelianDE,Aug 18 2015
02:55 AM
britinvasion64,Aug 16 2015
03:14 PM
I have that 45 as well as the German Odeon EP, The Beatles Hits, and it too also has the Ringo version of LMD.

Yes, it seems that Odeon didn't ask for a tape for this EP because the material (which corresponds to the British EP of the same name) was available on singles. So they took it from the singles' tapes, and that is why the EP has a recording of LMD that differs from the one used on the UK equivalent.

Quote:
 
In fact, the first 3 or 4 Beatles UK 45 releases were sent to Capitol Canada and were also released here, as needle drops...


As a matter of interest: has that been confirmed? Did Capitol Canada usually receive tapes via USA, that is tapes that had been sent to Capitol USA? If that's the case, a needledrop would make sense because the first 4 Canadian singles, all issued in 1963, corresponded to UK singles before those were used by Capitol USA.


To the Admiral Aug 16: Yes, MacDonald says that White was 'on later versions of the single' but doesn't specify on which. Lewisohn Sessions, which you could not check, seems to be more specific:

'Ardent Beatle fans will be aware that the content of the single changed in 1963. Copies pressed before then featured the 4 September version [...], Ringo on drums. [...] But later copies, and those available today [i.e. in 1988, when RS was published] feature the Andy White version, from 11 September.' (p. 22, my bold)

I think we can challenge ML on that. Note that he remains fairly vague in what follows. He continues:

'The swap took place at the time of the EP release The Beatles' Hits, which included the version with Andy. It was decided [how? when? by whom? -- we'll have to wait for vol. II of his bio] that future pressings of "Love Me Do" should all have this take. To ensure this, the master tape of Ringo's version was destroyed.'

The EP was released in September 1963. Both the Canadian and the German singles had been released by March, that is, at a time when, according to L, the master tape was still available and no decision had been made to stick to the Andy White version. And, of course, a considerable number of 'Black-label Ringos' were around by then in the UK. Henry has confirmed (above) that even 1964 copies have the 1N matrix.

Further research needed, as they say.

Here is an earlier discussion on the same topic...throughout the 60's all LMD pressings were 1N regardless of the label design.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/BeatlesCollect...hp?showtopic=30

Info on the first Capitol Canada 45s can be found here....and since Capitol USA was not involved with the Beatles in 1963, the release pressings were coming direct from EMI and needle dropped. Somewhere else this was also confirmed by Alan White of Capitol Canada, but can't find that info at the moment...on the same site somewhere though.

" Graham recalls that in the 1960s, it was common for RCA to receive regular release pressings from Capitol USA or EMI in the UK, for use as source material for Canadian 45 releases. Capitol mostly used the services of RCA Toronto to cut the lacquer masters for their Canadian releases. The studios were located in those days, at 225 Mutual Street in downtown Toronto, south of Carlton, just west of Jarvis St.
These «foreign» release discs were then directly transferred to a lacquer master that was used to make new 3 step (matrix, motherand stampers) metal parts for pressing purposes. The lacquer master would then be sent to RCA’s pressing plant in Smiths Fall where the new metal parts would be made for stamping out the release discs. Graham states that the lacquer masters for monaural discs were cut at RCA using a Scully lathe with a Westrex cutter head, and that the stereophonic masters were done on a Neumann lathe with the then-new Westrex 3B cutting head."
Quote taken from here....
http://www.capitol6000.com/pressingservices.html
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britinvasion64
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Here's more info from the same Canadian site....for your entertainment.
http://www.capitol6000.com/lovemedo50th.html
http://www.capitol6000.com/shelovesyou50th.html
http://www.capitol6000.com/rare.html
http://www.capitol6000.com/frommetoyou.html
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AurelianDE
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Thanks for the links, I'm going to enjoy some entertainment later.

And particularly for this older thread:
Quote:
 
Here is an earlier discussion on the same topic...throughout the 60's all LMD pressings were 1N regardless of the label design.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/BeatlesCollect...hp?showtopic=30

I wasn't aware of its existence (the search function being what it is). For those who don't want to read it all: It's mainly on label variations, but dozens of copies were checked and there was no -2N (or -2, for that matter). I speculated above that very probably there was no necessity to cut a new master during the sixties as demand for the single trickled out. Here's a bit of corroboration from the other thread:
Quote:
 
A friend in the UK with connections to EMI says that LMD was out of print and unavailable from 1965 to 1974 when the box set came out with the green picture sleeves. [...] All "70's copies of the single and later copies have the Alan White version.
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muffmasterh
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YES THIS IS my understanding of it all but I had nothing to back it up, was just going from memory of previous discussions, that it is a misnomer that back labels are 2N, only the 76 re-issues onwards carry the -2n.

I'm not sure when the last 60's issue of LMD was but as far as i know the last labels were 1964 ones. Of course they may have pressed some after 1964 using the 64 labels if there were any left overs in the stock room !!
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Bongo
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britinvasion64,Aug 18 2015
12:39 PM


Further research needed, as they say.
Here is an earlier discussion on the same topic...throughout the 60's all LMD  pressings were 1N regardless of the label design.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/BeatlesCollect...hp?showtopic=30



So "ALL" the original black Parlophone "Love Me Do" singles are Ringo on drums???
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muffmasterh
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all the 1960's black ones we think yes

but they are rarer than the original red ones....
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admiral halsey
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admiral halsey,Aug 18 2015
08:12 AM
I have just checked my 1963 black labels and they are all 1N. However, I clearly remember listening with two friends to original black and red label copies to compare them around thirty years ago. We all definitely agreed that they were different. IIRC, that black label copy is still in my friends possession. I'll ask him to check the matrix number.

AH

I stand corrected. His copy is 1N!!

AH
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Bongo
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muffmasterh,Aug 18 2015
08:10 PM
all the 1960's black ones we think yes

but they are rarer than the original red ones....

Wow, I had no idea the black ones were rarer than the red ones.

Txs again guys
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muffmasterh
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ONLY the 60's ones are rarer, not the 76 onwards copies
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Bongo
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muffmasterh,Aug 19 2015
07:36 PM
ONLY the 60's ones are rarer, not the 76 onwards copies

And before we get off topic, does that also mean it's still Ringo on drums????
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evert180_0
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^^^^^ Look up. Henry already answered you lol.
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Bongo
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admiral halsey,Aug 18 2015
08:12 AM
I have just checked my 1963 black labels and they are all 1N. However, I clearly remember listening with two friends to original black and red label copies to compare them around thirty years ago. We all definitely agreed that they were different. IIRC, that black label copy is still in my friends possession. I'll ask him to check the matrix number.

AH

admiral halsey
 
I stand corrected. His copy is 1N!!

AH

Looks like you were right on the mark AH, they are different, unless stated 1N!

As per Mark Lewisohn's Complete Beatles Recording Sessions, the later Singles have Andy White on drums.

Posted Image
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muffmasterh
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later from probably 1976
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