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Another "love Me Do" Single Question; Ringo on Drums??
Topic Started: Aug 13 2015, 11:58 PM (1,166 Views)
Bongo
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If I want to buy the Love Me Do single with Ringo on the drums instead of Allan White, how do I know which one to get? Is it only the Red Parlophone single, or the later black Parlophone singles that has it?
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Bongo
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anyone? :blink:
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Xex606
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Yes the Ringo version ends 2N these are normally the 1970s black label copies and the 1980s red labels. .the Andy white version ends 1N and although there are some black label copies this is more common as a red label.

here's the Ringo version there's plenty about

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&...6849289&alt=web
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muffmasterh
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sorry thats not correct, the single version is I understand Ringo and the album Andy White

That means the 1N's are Ringo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWnklhOCVmc
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Xex606
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Yes your right mental block
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admiral halsey
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Henry, aren't the black and red labels 60's pressings different versions? I thought Ringo was on the 1962 red label. When EMI came to compile the LP, they'd already trashed the 1962 master. That's why the 12" single was mastered from a pristine Red label to include the Ringo version. It also explains why the 1963 Black label re-pressing features Andy White.

AH
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Xex606
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the 1963 black label is the Ringo version.
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muffmasterh
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yes it is a misnomer that the early blacks are different, if the matrix is 1n then its Ringo whatever the colour. I'm not sure the date of the switch though but my two 64 blacks are still 1n
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admiral halsey
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admiral halsey,Aug 15 2015
09:18 PM
Henry, aren't the black and red labels 60's pressings different versions? I thought Ringo was on the 1962 red label. When EMI came to compile the LP, they'd already trashed the 1962 master. That's why the 12" single was mastered from a pristine Red label to include the Ringo version. It also explains why the 1963 Black label re-pressing features Andy White.

AH

I just checked "Revolution in the head"(Ian McDonald), page 52(cannot lay my hands on Lewishon sessions at the mo). Ringo is on the first single pressings, White is on later singles and the album.

I am sure that this was because the masters were lost. I think EMI also "lost" the SLY master, necessitating the re-recording for German, rather than overdubbing a new vocal.

I remember at the time of the 20yrs ago campaign, a story of a pristine Red Label LMD being sourced to enable the release of the 12" single to include Ringo's version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Me_Do

http://thebeatles-collection.com/wordpress...lophone-r-4949/

AH
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servi
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Some foreign singles may have the Ringo version. The Beatles mixes books says the German and Canadian have it. I haven't heard them.
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muffmasterh
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yes the master for LMD was lost but I believe it was subsequently found ??, the tapes were wiped after the mono master so no stereo mix was ever possible

However for SLY I'm not so sure, I think the original tapes were also disposed of after the mono mix which meant that they could also not mix for stereo for when a stereo mix was later needed but I think the mono mix master exists and was never lost...

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AurelianDE
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It's quite simple: IF the red Parlophone has 1N as a matrix, and Ringo is on the red Parlophone (which he is), then all subsequent pressings that have the 1N-matrix are Ringo versions. Check your black Parlophones. If I'm not mistaken, a new master was only used for the 1970s reissues. The first master lasted well into the sixties. Demand for the single trickled out during that time. It doesnt matter that or when the master tape was lost as long as there was a metal master (1N!) with it.

The German version (green Odeon, but paired with PPM) has Ringo on it. It is said to be a needledrop from a British single (tha tape was lost by then?) and was replaced by a tape transfer for later issues (the Ringo version, mind you, so the tape was recovered?). That's another myth, as far as I'm concerned. A new transfer would have required a new master (-2, in Germany), but NO sixties copies with that master have been reported. And there was no reissue of that particular single during the sixties. The seventies version followed the British model, combining LMD and PS. I Love You.

So either the first German version was a needledrop or was taken from a submaster tape. Be that as it may, it is the only version and has Ringo on it. (The quality is very good. If it was a needledrop, you can't hear the difference. Or I can't.)
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britinvasion64
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servi,Aug 16 2015
08:54 AM
Some foreign singles may have the Ringo version. The Beatles mixes books says the German and Canadian have it. I haven't heard them.


Yes indeed, the Canadian 45 is the Ringo Version...a needle drop from the UK Parlophone 45 sent to Capitol Canada.
In fact, the first 3 or 4 Beatles UK 45 releases were sent to Capitol Canada and we're also released here, as needle drops...Capitol Canada moved faster than Capitol USA in those first days, fortunately for us first generation fans.
As you probably also know, we even had the first NA Beatles LP release after Vee Jay decided to hold up their release of ITB.
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britinvasion64
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AurelianDE,Aug 16 2015
01:50 PM
The German version (green Odeon, but paired with PPM) has Ringo on it. It is said to be a needledrop from a British single (tha tape was lost by then?) and was replaced by a tape transfer for later issues (the Ringo version, mind you, so the tape was recovered?).


I have that 45 as well as the German Odeon EP, The Beatles Hits, and it too also has the Ringo version of LMD.
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AurelianDE
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britinvasion64,Aug 16 2015
03:14 PM
I have that 45 as well as the German Odeon EP, The Beatles Hits, and it too also has the Ringo version of LMD.

Yes, it seems that Odeon didn't ask for a tape for this EP because the material (which corresponds to the British EP of the same name) was available on singles. So they took it from the singles' tapes, and that is why the EP has a recording of LMD that differs from the one used on the UK equivalent.

Quote:
 
In fact, the first 3 or 4 Beatles UK 45 releases were sent to Capitol Canada and were also released here, as needle drops...


As a matter of interest: has that been confirmed? Did Capitol Canada usually receive tapes via USA, that is tapes that had been sent to Capitol USA? If that's the case, a needledrop would make sense because the first 4 Canadian singles, all issued in 1963, corresponded to UK singles before those were used by Capitol USA.


To the Admiral Aug 16: Yes, MacDonald says that White was 'on later versions of the single' but doesn't specify on which. Lewisohn Sessions, which you could not check, seems to be more specific:

'Ardent Beatle fans will be aware that the content of the single changed in 1963. Copies pressed before then featured the 4 September version [...], Ringo on drums. [...] But later copies, and those available today [i.e. in 1988, when RS was published] feature the Andy White version, from 11 September.' (p. 22, my bold)

I think we can challenge ML on that. Note that he remains fairly vague in what follows. He continues:

'The swap took place at the time of the EP release The Beatles' Hits, which included the version with Andy. It was decided [how? when? by whom? -- we'll have to wait for vol. II of his bio] that future pressings of "Love Me Do" should all have this take. To ensure this, the master tape of Ringo's version was destroyed.'

The EP was released in September 1963. Both the Canadian and the German singles had been released by March, that is, at a time when, according to L, the master tape was still available and no decision had been made to stick to the Andy White version. And, of course, a considerable number of 'Black-label Ringos' were around by then in the UK. Henry has confirmed (above) that even 1964 copies have the 1N matrix.

Further research needed, as they say.
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