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| Beatles 71-74 Uk Albums Emerald Contract Press? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 12 2014, 01:16 PM (4,012 Views) | |
| muffmasterh | Feb 14 2014, 12:17 PM Post #16 |
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Level 7
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to clarify i am only referring to those caribbean " Decca " contracts with UK labels, they clearly are UK labels , and are almost certainly pressed in the West indies, either Jamaica or Barbados as the circumstantial evidence is pretty daming. However i accept that these may not really be contracts as there is no firm evidence these were supposed to ever be for the UK market, but the area is grey so I am happy to call them contracts to avoid further confusion....fiction is strange but the truth can often be stranger lol ! |
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| socorro | Feb 14 2014, 02:16 PM Post #17 |
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Level 5
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Servi, Two things. 1. Wow, that Barbados HJ is amazing. I don't think I've ever seen a P-CPCS 106 catalog number for that LP, and the CARIFTA sticker is convincing proof of its Barbados origins. Thanks for sharing that. Yet another "snowball's chance in hell" LP to add to the want list. 2. I'm comfortable with the proposition that the "false Decca" Sgt. Pepper was made in Jamaica, with the caveat noted above that the Jamaica WIRL facility had already created its own B&Y Parlophone labels. One possibility is that the actual Jamaican manufacturing company was no longer Gloken, as stated on the B&Y labels for AHDN, Help & Revolver. If so, here's some further speculation: Rather than create new Parlophone labels omitting the Gloken reference, when it was known that production would soon be moving to Barbados, perhaps WIRL Jamaica asked EMI UK to send a batch of labels along with the sleeves. I am not comfortable at all with the proposition that the "false Decca" Sgt. Pepper was a Jamaican contract pressing intended for sale in the UK. The notion that EMI UK would ship a tiny number of Sgt. Pepper sleeves and labels across the Atlantic, and then ship a tiny number of finished LPs back across the Atlantic, is too far-fetched for me. That said, Henry's caution is well-taken. Who would have thought that the India affiliate would have manufactured LPs for sale in Hungary? And why would there be export copies of some VeeJay singles for sale in Italy? Yet it appears that these both happened. |
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| servi | Feb 14 2014, 03:11 PM Post #18 |
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Level 5
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Could be true indeed. The HJ LP shows that Barbados got true UK labels, while we also know that the Barbados Parlophone AR pressings copied the UK label lay-out with "Made in Barbados" added. So Barbados made their own labels and imported UK labels. The same may be true for Jamaica. Jamaica imported both UK and USA sleeves plus UK and USA matrices. They even used pasted-over butcher covers for their Y&T pressings, as we discussed some years ago on this forum.... Here is another interesting C-CPCS HJ that I had not heard of before, but which I believe is sensational. It has UK export labels, but this actually is a Kenya pressing !! : http://www.popsike.com/BEATLESHEY-JUDE-UK-...0079453774.html I believe it's made in Kenya because 1) it has the Kenyan label rim identical to the rim on Beatles LPs with "Made in Kenya". This rim is not seen on any other country's pressings and 2) it has a sticker stating: " 'Assanand & Sons , Nairobi , Kenya'". It sold for GBP 1300.... Apparentely, the UK sent labels all over the world.... Posted Image This record is pressed by Polydor probably (or by Assanand and sons): check the Kenyan red Polydor pressing on this website: http://www.eastafricanmusic.com/polygram_discog.htm . Quote from that website: "In Kenya, I have found Polydor releases going back to around 1967 or 68. The earliest catalog number I've found in the POL 7 series is POL 7-005 from 1968, Tanzania's Atomic Jazz performing Usitamani Kitu b/w Fika Uwone Mwenyewe. Most of these early releases were recorded by other production companies such as ASL or Assanand & Sons, Mombasa. In 1972, the parent company of Kenya's Phonogram merged (if I understand this correctly) with the parent company of Kenya's Polydor Records. The new company became Polygram" The HJ label is similar to my Kenyan Love Songs pressing and to the Kenyan 20 Golden hits. I do not have detailed scans of the Kenyan Let it be pressing on Parlophone, but it seems that this also has the Polydor ring. Pretty amazing IMO ! The labels says Parlophone UK, while it was by Polydor (or Assanand ?) in Kenya.... Here is a similar Kenyan Pink Floyd pressing on Parlophone: http://digilander.libero.it/mrpinky/piper_parlophone.htm
Fully agree. These pressings are completely hyped (maybe it was even started by the beatlescollecting website, who first identified the Decca Peppers many years ago). A UK "export" pressings fetches much more money on Ebay than a Barbados pressing. The fact that "Decca" pressed it, only adds to it's value. And while all of us know that these sellers are wrong, it's these untruths that determine the value of these pressings. Strange world... |
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| servi | Feb 14 2014, 03:44 PM Post #19 |
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Level 5
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Here's the Kenyan Love songs for comparison: I would put my money on Polydor, because many Polydor pressings look like this.... Posted Image |
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| muffmasterh | Feb 14 2014, 06:03 PM Post #20 |
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wow it just gets weirder eh ! |
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| socorro | Feb 14 2014, 07:10 PM Post #21 |
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That Kenya HJ is unbelieveable. That is quite a distinctive pressing ridge, and it exactly matches the one on your LP. Interesting that it is a one box, because the Kenya LIB sold a few months back was a two box. Reading the popsike entry, we see that the seller incorrectly described it as an export pressing. As with the "Decca contract" Pepper, hard to tell if it is genuine lack of knowledge, or a calculation that "export" adds up to more cash than "Kenya." |
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| muffmasterh | Feb 14 2014, 08:39 PM Post #22 |
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well HJ is an export LP but what do you call an export lp pressed in Kenya and with UK printed double export p-cpcs labels and sleeve, a triple bubble lol |
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| servi | Feb 14 2014, 08:51 PM Post #23 |
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Level 5
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Probably most collectors would prefer a true UK export HJ instead of a Kenya copy, and most collectors wouldn't even know there was a Kenya pressing anyway (we didn't know either until today). I just found this one by chance on popsike and now I am pretty sure it's a true Kenyan Polydor. Indeed unbelievable. The Kenyan Let it be 2 box sold for GBP 671, which is half of what this HJ sold for. IMO it's just a matter of time before we discover other Kenyan pressings. Compare to Nigeria: for a long time I knew of only 1 LP (the one I own) but then several began appearing on ebay, even different label styles... |
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| servi | Feb 14 2014, 08:53 PM Post #24 |
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Level 5
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Indeed, where's the hidden cam ?? I have a feeling that no label can be trusted anymore.... |
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| namralos | Feb 14 2014, 09:13 PM Post #25 |
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That's right. Export labels were sent to countries who could press their own records but which did not normally have a contract with a printer. For me, the "true" exports are only those that were pressed in the UK and sent to affiliates in countries that were unable to press their own records. |
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| muffmasterh | Feb 14 2014, 10:04 PM Post #26 |
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Level 7
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yes that is true Frank, they are not exports but its the UK label that sends them into the stratosphere.... |
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| servi | Feb 15 2014, 08:40 PM Post #27 |
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Level 5
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Here is a Let it be export pressing, with what looks like the Polydor (Kenya ?) ring. A similar copy is depicted in the Spizer/Daniels book. Posted Image And this is probably a Barbados pressing of the same LP. The label paper quality looks different than UK labels.... Posted Image There is a possibility that people are paying huge amounts for what they think are UK export pressings, while these actually may be foreign pressings..... |
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| muffmasterh | Feb 15 2014, 09:00 PM Post #28 |
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personally to me this does not diminish their value .... |
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| rsinige | Feb 15 2014, 11:45 PM Post #29 |
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Guys, further to this excellent thread. I few years ago I purchased 2 albums from the same source, 1 being a Hey Jude "export" and the other a standard Pepper. The HJ has a record shop foil sticker (and a gold foil Parlophone sticker) on the rear. The shop sticker states Mombassa, Nairobi and Kampala, so Kenya and Uganda. I guess the shop had outlets in these 2 countries. The Pepper has an ink stamp on the inside of the gate stating Nairobi (I can't really make out any more).I've added pics of these elements, the label being the same as the one above from popsike. I'm convinced these originated from Kenya although the Pepper was exported from the UK and sold there. One other thing regarding the HJ, as well as the stamped YEEX matrix, there is also the scratched catalogue number in the dead wax area, the are no EMI pressing marks. Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image |
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| namralos | Feb 16 2014, 02:40 AM Post #30 |
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The complication is that an extra outer ring shows up on domestic (UK) pressings in 1970-71. Tough to tell what's going on with the LP unless you see the matrix. If it doesn't have British stamper codes, it was made somewhere else. Like this one It now looks like Kenyan copies are somewhat common among these export-label records. I wonder whether Kenya made more of these "extra pressing ring" Parlophone records. |
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6:56 PM Jul 11