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Love Me Do; missing bracket
Topic Started: Feb 3 2014, 10:39 AM (3,784 Views)
Xex606
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Gizmobob,Feb 28 2014
03:17 PM
muffmasterh,Feb 28 2014
10:37 AM
remember my 2 decks of badly shuffled cards theory....that is a perfect example..

Hi Henry, I agree with you and that makes absolute sense on why the 1/P is the earliest Stamper used and maybe why there isn't a 1/R. But the only verifiable constant is that ZT was the tax code in Oct-62, not PT or PZT. So in order for the 3rd label variation to be prevalent in Oct-62, we would have to believe that the PT and PZT code was already being used in Oct-62... which is what I am having trouble believing. Yet, the first label version without the MIGB text are almost all found with ZT tax code, which pre-dates the PT or PZT code. So it appears that the Stampers were not used in chronological order and the 01B(i) labels were seen on earlier ZT pressings before the 01A(iii) with the PT/PZT stampers.

My brain hurts now :blink:

Are we sure the earliest stamper was P? not to labour a point but the first stamper was JR to make stock.
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namralos
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They wouldn't ordinarily re-use the JR stamper right away, but they wouldn't let it go to waste. At some point they noticed it wasn't worn out yet and ran through a run with the JR stamper(s).

As for the change in tax code, the record companies normally started using the new code when it was announced. That way they were sure the proper code would be on records when they left the factory to go out to be sold. Most of the time this probably happened a couple of weeks prior to the code taking effect. Now PT took effect in late November, so Parlo may have started pressing in mid-November. MT seems to have been somewhat of a surprise -- coming so quickly after the change to MT -- so maybe there was considerably less notice for the M. I have a record with an MT stamp, so there must have been quite a few singles still in stock that got stuck in distribution between PT and MT.
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Xex606
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JR both sides that would surprise me to my way of thinking the reason for jR both sides is that there was no other metal work available at the time they were produced.incidently I've never seen the A side JR reused maybe it got damaged.
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Gizmobob
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namralos,Feb 28 2014
04:04 PM
The "no MIGB" error occurs on labels made in December, 1962, and January, 1963 -- ONLY. Any examination of the non-Beatles releases proves this definitively.

So when do you think the 01A(iii) with the PT/PZT stampers were produced? Since all but one confirmed 01A(iii) have PT/PZT tax code, it would be logical that they were not produced until late Nov thru Dec-62. But since you stated that the first three labels were produced from early Oct-62, then that means that they produced Stampers with the PT/PZT tax codes in late Sept-62... correct?
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namralos
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A(iii) is the one where the information is just slightly shifted from A(ii)?

If that's the case, then I was wrong earlier. They had to be from November.

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Gizmobob
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namralos,Mar 3 2014
08:31 PM
A(iii) is the one where the information is just slightly shifted from A(ii)?

If that's the case, then I was wrong earlier.  They had to be from November.

01A(iii): Left aligned Pub Credits, indented "Recording First...", with MIGB text, and "Love Me Do" centered with "(Lennon - McCartney)".

This third variation has 4 characteristic to identify it.

a: The Publishing Credits are left-aligned with the matrix no. (7XCE 17144 45)
Posted Image

b: "Recording first..." text is slightly indented/shifted to the right from the matrix no. (7XCE 17144 45)
Posted Image

c: Has the "M.I.G.B." text on the label
Posted Image

d: The song title "Love Me Do" is centered over the authors, "(Lennon - McCartney)".
Posted Image
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namralos
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Right. I discovered those. In my notes that's "R under C."

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Gizmobob
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So frank, according to the information you shared, I've come up with a spreadsheet to list the probable order of which the red label Love Me Do single was released starting in early October 1962.

Love Me Do (Red Label - UK)

Of course, there is no way to positively prove the exact order, but establishing the dates by the tax codes with respect to the stamper numbers, I think this list is pretty close. What do you think?
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namralos
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Since that's just a spreadsheet recording the information we have, and since I recorded a lot of that myself, I certainly agree that this is exactly what I reported to Bruce. :-)

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Gizmobob
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namralos,Mar 7 2014
05:22 PM
Since that's just a spreadsheet recording the information we have, and since I recorded a lot of that myself, I certainly agree that this is exactly what I reported to Bruce.  :-)

You supplied nearly ALL of that... I just put it in the probable order and added my copies to the confirmed list and the two or three others on this board who offered their info of their red label pressings.

Thanks Frank... everyone here is aware of the enormous support and knowledge you offer to us. Although it's probably not said enough, we are lucky to have you participate with this message board and help us all acquire some "Beatles Knowledge" to help fuel our thirst for everything Beatles! I believe I speak for most here that we do acknowledge that your wealth of information is offered up for free and is deeply appreciated! In the Beatles Collecting World, you sir, are a King! <Gizmo raises his pint in honor and shouts> HERE HERE!

Posted Image
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yarvelling
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Gizmobob,Mar 7 2014
06:41 PM
namralos,Mar 7 2014
05:22 PM
Since that's just a spreadsheet recording the information we have, and since I recorded a lot of that myself, I certainly agree that this is exactly what I reported to Bruce.  :-)

You supplied nearly ALL of that... I just put it in the probable order and added my copies to the confirmed list and the two or three others on this board who offered their info of their red label pressings.

Thanks Frank... everyone here is aware of the enormous support and knowledge you offer to us. Although it's probably not said enough, we are lucky to have you participate with this message board and help us all acquire some "Beatles Knowledge" to help fuel our thirst for everything Beatles! I believe I speak for most here that we do acknowledge that your wealth of information is offered up for free and is deeply appreciated! In the Beatles Collecting World, you sir, are a King! <Gizmo raises his pint in honor and shouts> HERE HERE!

Posted Image

Quite agree! :)
Here, Here.... - raises glass to Frank! :)
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namralos
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Thanks, guys.

I started that LMD list before Bruce even agreed to work on the book with me. I also did one with respect to gold-label PPM LP's, but I didn't learn as much from it -- aside from discovering the different pressing ring on the 1H stampers.

Anyway, there's certainly no reason why everyone shouldn't have the same information, right? This way, everyone may insert his/her own copy of LMD into the mix and see where it falls.

The most interesting conclusion, I think, was demonstrating that some MIGB copies were earlier than the copies without, and some were later. This certainly wasn't obvious.

Funny (?) note: When Bruce and I first talked about it, he said something like, "I can put together a mock first chapter of 'Love Me Do.' That will be easy since there are two red labels and a black." I _laughed, which he did not find amusing at all.

I have also found quite a few label shifts on the American Capitol singles -- which everyone has claimed do not exist. Maybe Bruce will let me publish them in the electronic update of his Capitol singles book.

This is how Collector's/Pigeonholer's Disease works, folks. "They're either exactly the same, or they're DIFFERENT."
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Gizmobob
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For those with Red Label Love Me Do 45s who wish to be a part of this collaboration, please identify the following and we'll either add your info to the spreadsheet, if missing, or add a confirmation for your pressing.

1: Label Type (Spizer Number) 01A: MIGB Text, 01B: No MIGB Text

01A(i): Indented Pub Credits

01A(ii): "45" right aligned with "Recording First Published 1962"

01A(iii): Left aligned Pub Credits, indented "Recording First...", and "Love Me Do" centered with "(Lennon - McCartney)".

01B(i): "Love Me Do" centered with "(Lennon - McCartney)".

01B(ii): Missing Right Parenthesis on Side-B

01B(iii): "Love Me Do" Right-Aligned with "(Lennon - McCartney)".

01A(iv): Same as 01A(v) except "Beechwood" is slightly indented to the right

01A(v): Same as 01A(iii) except "Love Me Do" Right-Aligned with "(Lennon - McCartney)".

2: Stamper Letters in Deadwax (Found at 3 O'Clock) JR, G, R, A, M, O, P, H, L, T, D

3: Tax Codes in Deadwax (ZT) (PZT) (PT) (MPZT) (MPT) (MT) (KT)

4: Pushout Tax Code (If Applies)

Thanks
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F O T H
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A couple of variations from your list. My copies of the following have different label versions from those listed:

1O / 1G - 01B (iii)
1GR / 1T - 01A (iii)
1GA / 1M - 01B (iii)
1GM / 1M - 01B (iii)

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Gizmobob
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F O T H,Mar 11 2014
08:10 AM
A couple of variations from your list. My copies of the following have different label versions from those listed:

1O / 1G - 01B (iii)
1GR / 1T - 01A (iii)
1GA / 1M - 01B (iii)
1GM / 1M - 01B (iii)

Can you share what the tax codes that are in the deadwax, and is there any tax code on the pushout centre? Please double check to make sure that the ones with 01A have the MIGB text, ad the 01B does not.

Thanks
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