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Lp: And Now: The Beatles - Switzerland.
Topic Started: Jan 16 2014, 03:58 AM (2,209 Views)
servi
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In fact, a quick browse through the Watzek book, shows the small pressing ring shown in the previous post is very abundant on Odeon and Hor zu pressings after 1968-1969....
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namralos
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Should we conclude that the copies of "And Now" with the additional small pressing ring are all from 1969 and later?
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AurelianDE
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I don't think so. I have a copy of 'The World's Best' on the SR label that has the smaller ring (no dots detected; they're usually on one side only, or am I wrong?). According to matrices, the succession of minor label differences, front laminated sleeve etc., it can be dated mid-July '68. (According to discogs, that terrible compilation went through at least 8 variations before it reverted to Odeon on the blue label.)

If mid-68 copies (at the latest!) of 'The World's Best' were being pressed with a double ring, I see no reason why 'And Now' copies with the same feature should not date from '68 as well.
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AurelianDE
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servi said:
Quote:
 
Where the Swiss ones were pressed is yet unclear.


No, it isn't. It seems that 'Austrian copies' were actually pressed in Germany FOR Austria, but Swiss copies can only have been pressed by Turicaphon, as that was the only place to do it. Of course, other records, such as the Ex Libris issues with the 9 leading the usual cat.#, may have been pressed by Turicaphon as contract pressings or in Germany. As long as there is no clear indication in the stamper (Made in Switzerland), we can't know for sure where the records were made. If there is, we can.

There's another possible misunderstanding.
Quote:
 
Apparentely Odeon was not represented and had to be imported. -- EMI's Switzerland branch was near Zürich, in Zug.


The fact that a company was 'represented' has nothing to do with where the records were pressed. EMI was represented but didn't have its own pressing facilities. ALL records from EMI had to be imported or made as contract pressings for their international affiliates such as Electrola in Germany.
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kaptain_kopter
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AurelianDE,Jan 19 2014
04:37 AM
(no dots detected; they're usually on one side only, or am I wrong?)


And Now:... with two dots on either side


Quote:
 
ALL records from EMI had to be imported or made as contract pressings for their international affiliates such as Electrola in Germany.


AFAIK know, Carl Lindström was the sister company of Electrola: in fact they were two companies under the same roof; Electrola did the marketing, contracting etc. and Lindström did the pressing job. Here's a nice link:

please click
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namralos
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'68 is still LATE for an LP from '66. I would consider those copies to not be true first pressings. Obviously "And Now" sold well (better?) after the release of the "World's Best" LP.

I have WB (both incarnations), but if I'm going after And Now, I want a true first pressing.
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servi
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AurelianDE,Jan 19 2014
06:35 AM
The fact that a company was 'represented' has nothing to do with where the records were pressed. EMI was represented but didn't have its own pressing facilities. ALL records from EMI had to be imported or made as contract pressings for their international affiliates such as Electrola in Germany.

EMI used Turicaphon ! Below is an example of an Columbia single pressed by Turicaphon and an Odeon single ("fabr Suisse") pressed by Turicaphon, plus a Blick Turicaphon for comparison: notice the identical label styles ! So both labels were represented...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Quote:
 
As long as there is no clear indication in the stamper (Made in Switzerland), we can't know for sure where the records were made.

When you say above that EMI did not have its own pressing facilities and everything had to be imported, why then are you convinced that "And now" was a Swiss pressing? In other words, Switzerland imported all Beatles singles and EPs from Germany (and one single from the UK), but this obscure "And now" LP they made themselves, using German labels ?? Could be true, but just a matrix marking alone is not much, moreover while the label mentions Germany... But, I never held a copy of this And now pressing in my hands and can't compare it to a German pressing, so you may be right.
Another interesting question is why Switerzland pressed records from Swiss bands and stuff like the "Balmerbübe Kapelle aus Wilderswil" on Odeon and other stuff that maybe sold 9 copies or so, but they didn't press Beatles singles. Maybe it had to do with capacity of the Swiss Turicaphon vs the German Electrola plant ?

Quote:
 
If mid-68 copies (at the latest!) of 'The World's Best' were being pressed with a double ring, I see no reason why 'And Now' copies with the same feature should not date from '68 as well.

Concerning the year of release of the second pressings of And now (with small pressing ring and/or dots): yes these could have been from 1968 as well, but probably not from as early July 1966 as suggested earlier in this thread. Dating the inner pressing ring is very hard, but it becomes apparent on the blue label Odeon pressings. Due to this fact, and the fact that there are (early ?) World's best LP without the inner ring/dots, 1969 is plausible. But this is no exact science. The only true evidence would be in the pressing plant's archives (if these still exist). The rest is just deduction and trying to find patterns and associations that need not necessarily be true....
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servi
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namralos,Jan 19 2014
08:11 PM
'68 is still LATE for an LP from '66.  I would consider those copies to not be true first pressings.  Obviously "And Now" sold well (better?) after the release of the "World's Best" LP.

I have WB (both incarnations), but if I'm going after And Now, I want a true first pressing.

Yes, we all want a And Now true first pressing now. Value will undoubtly increase for those now that everybody knows about it ;)
Concerning WB: I though I had these "complete", until I saw the Watzek book: 4 different versions of the first pressing (including one that has ST45 instead of ST33), 2 different version of the second, 3 versions of the blue Odeon label and 4 versions of the green label.....
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namralos
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World's Best

Okay, not only was I wrong about the number of distinct pressings of this LP, but I wasn't even close.

I have never seen a copy with ST 45. However, a casual search of the Internet reveals:

S*R International 77-235

Label 1A -- Very small print around rim of label across top and bottom.
Print begins "Alle Urheber- und...." This pressing may be Austrian (?).

Label 1B -- Small print around rim of label across bottom only.
Print begins "Urheber- und...." Other label info is in different locations from 1A, 1C, or 1D.

Label 1C -- Small print around rim of label across bottom only.
Print begins "Urheber- und...." Label information is in the same locations at on 1A, 1D.

Label 1D -- Rim text in ALL CAPS. I have found this label with a single (1") pressing ring, and also with additional small pressing rings.

Label 1H -- Dutch pressing. Listed for completeness.

Odeon 27-408-4

Label 2A -- ST 33 is in circles at bottom. Other pressings have ST 33 in flatter ovals. Also, this is the only blue-label pressing without an LC code in the upper right on the label.

Label 2B -- ST 33 is in ovals. LC 0287 appears in the upper right. I have seen this with a normal (1") pressing ring, or with a much wider pressing ring, or with multiple pressing rings.

Label 2C -- ST 33 is in ovals. Columbia label (error). LC 0162 appears in the upper right.

Label 3A -- Green label

---------------------------------------

That makes quite a few distinct pressings.

Frank
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AurelianDE
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servi, I'm not quite sure if I understand you correctly.
Quote:
 
When you say above that EMI did not have its own pressing facilities and everything had to be imported, why then are you convinced that "And now" was a Swiss pressing?


I didn't say that all EMI records had to be imported. I said that they were either imported or contract pressings by Turicaphon. As I said earlier, 90 % of Turicaphon's work was contract work, and they expicitly mention EMI.

I'm convinced that 'And Now' was ALSO pressed in Switzerland because no German company would do them the favour of putting 'Made in Switzerland' in the trail-off if the record was actually made in Germany. The fact that MOST Beatles records for Switzerland were pressed in Germany doesn't mean that all of them were pressed there. It was a question of capacities, surely, and a non-regular LP doesn't seem an unlikely candidate for a contract pressing.

Quote:
 
Concerning the year of release of the second pressings of And now (with small pressing ring and/or dots): yes these could have been from 1968 as well, but probably not from as early July 1966 as suggested earlier in this thread.


There are first pressings with the 'Alle ...' rim text and second pressings with the 'Urheber- ...' rim text AND the 1" ring. Double-ring pressings would be third pressings (at least). According to what we know about the perimeter print, first pressings would be from June '66 at the latest, and second pressings from July at the earliest. The double pressing rings with or without dots are surely later.

I only learnt here that a first pressing with the 'Alle..' text existed at all. Terrible, isn't it?


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AurelianDE
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As for 'World's Best', I'm not a completist and I don't like the compilation at all. An accountant's move, if you ask me. Who would place 'If I Fell' between 'Yellow Submarine' and 'And Your Bird'?

But one thing Frank said puzzles me.
Quote:
 
Label 1A -- Very small print around rim of label across top and bottom.
Print begins "Alle Urheber- und...." This pressing may be Austrian (?).

That can't be the usual 'Alle Rechte...' text, as WB was released in Dec '67 at the earliest when the 'Alle' text had long passed under the bridge. ???

Anyway, I found documentation for about 8 pressings, NOT counting the blue Odeons onward. I thought I had a first pressing. It now looks it was a 1968 5th re-press (the way they count them, unfortunately, with each label change called a 'pressing').


PS.: @Kaptain kopter: Thanks for the information. That would mean that Electrola records were pressed by Lindström, which was a different company on paper, but Lindström was only added on the label if Electrola or its sublabels were not (such as licensed issues for Deutscher Schallplattenclub).
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kaptain_kopter
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@Aurelian

Quote:
 
That can't be the usual 'Alle Rechte...' text, as WB was released in Dec '67 at the earliest when the 'Alle' text had long passed under the bridge. ???


Complete text reads: "Alle Urheber- und Leistungsschutzrechte vorbehalten"

please click

Watzek CD5, p.81 (2012 version)
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namralos
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Yep, that's the one!
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servi
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AurelianDE,Jan 20 2014
06:49 AM
I thought I had a first pressing. It now looks it was a 1968 5th re-press.

That's the essence of this forum summarized in one quote :lol: :lol: :lol:
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namralos
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Yes, servi, THAT SAYS IT!!

Quote of the year!
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