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Ebay 'shill' Bidding
Topic Started: Nov 20 2013, 11:05 AM (1,087 Views)
pks1985
Level 2
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Is there a way of properly reporting a seller for 'shill' bidding on their items.

There is one particular seller, whom I won't name as it can't be proved, who seems to always relist things that sell days earlier. Constantly overpricing items and achieving very high end prices.

I'm almost bloody certain they are at it
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the57thbeatle
Member Avatar
Level 4
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I don't think there's anything you can do, except when it is so very obvious (one eBayer bidding on all of another eBayer's items). Like we can't do anything about Dmlecki with all his fake acetates........ :angry:
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Pacey
Admin
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I liked it when you could view the other bidders in an auction. Although having the same users bidding on a number of your auctions over time is not unusual, it at least gave us an insight into the possibility of a seller shill-bidding.
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socorro
Level 5
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As much as shill bidding annoys me, the ability of Dmlecki and gabybutti to poison the well with fakes -- with impunity -- is far worse. I've tried reporting ganybutti, but ebay is not set up for that kind of reporting.

The most egregious shill bidding I've seen recently was for a Bolivian Rubber Soul. A zero feedback bidder made more than 40 bids, about 15 seconds apart, in round number increments, bidding up an earlier bid from around $500 to more than $1300. Unfortunately, the zero bidder shill got too greedy and "won" the auction for $1375. A few weeks later, the same LP (it was offered by the same seller and had a distinctive mark on the rear sleeve) was listed. This time a three feedback bidder bid it up in numerous round number increments but dropped out at $600. As a result, it went for $627. So I guess the seller lost more than $700 for going to the well once too often the first time.

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Pacey
Admin
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Ebay must surely keep an eye on these instances… I imagine the seller, in your example socorro, posted a 'non-paying-bidder' claim to get back his final value fee. If a seller keeps doing this, surely it rings some alarm bells somewhere…?

Mind you, having said that, I've had one particular record that has received different non-paying bidders on at least two occasions. I've never encountered that in the past, so for it to happen to the same disc multiple times is unfortunate – but perhaps I'm now on eBay's watch list because of it?!
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RockySassoon
Level 2
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I was only ever aware of "friends" of sellers pushing the price - then after the auction has ended, you get an email, saying that the buyer can't complete the transaction for whatever reason and the item is offered to you as the second highest bidder - pretty obvious!
This week I had the case of someone trying to outbid me during the last few minutes in the smallest possible steps - then as he realised he went past my bid, he withdrew his last bid during the last two seconds, leaving me as the "lucky winner", ha ha...
I then had a look at the profile of the seller's "companion" and I couldn't believe it. He had 340 withdrawn bids during the last six months.
I reported the case to ebay and told the seller to keep his stuff. He then accused me of allegation and told me to never bid on his items again. Of course I won't!!!
Needless to say, ebay did nothing. It's beyond me, how anybody with a bidding record like this can continue with that crap for months.
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socorro
Level 5
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Rocky,

That's outrageous. I thought there were limitations on withdrawing bids near the end for just this reason, but obviously ebay is not policing this.

I can't believe that a buyer with that many withdrawn bids is permitted once it is brought to ebay's attention. There is no legitimate reason for that.

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jimboo
Level 3
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Shill bidder prosecuted
This sort of conduct strikes at the heart of that trust which is vital if this very, very useful commercial medium is to continue to operate successfully”

Judge Peter Benson
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10510086
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muffmasterh
Level 7
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we all know it happens, but only this weekend I had a winning bidder fm Japan pull out on me for not an obviously very good reason ( sorry bid on wrong item - was clearly using google translate which didn't help either i admit ) and apart from spoiling my auction i had to offer it up to the second bidder and worry that he might think I am trying to pull a fast one grrrrrr.......
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rsinige
Level 3
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My only experience of this was when I bid just over £100 for a Beatles single. When I bid the record was at the starting price of £4.99. I didn't win the record as a last minute bid came in and beat mine by a fiver. Obviously I don't know what the Max was but I lost the auction. Within minutes of the auction ending I had an email from the seller stating the winner couldn't complete and I like the record for my maximum bid of the £100+ I bid !!!! In principle I declined cos I smelt a rat!!
Oh the record was a push out made in France Hello Goodbye!!!!
I've got principals, wish I didn't! Ho hum!!!
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billstiggins
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Level 3
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rsinige,Mar 24 2014
05:45 PM
My only experience of this was when I bid just over £100 for a Beatles single. When I bid the record was at the starting price of £4.99. I didn't win the record as a last minute bid came in and beat mine by a fiver. Obviously I don't know what the Max was but I lost the auction. Within minutes of the auction ending I had an email from the seller stating the winner couldn't complete and I like the record for my maximum bid of the £100+ I bid !!!! In principle I declined cos I smelt a rat!!
Oh the record was a push out made in France Hello Goodbye!!!!
I've got principals, wish I didn't!  Ho hum!!!

Yes, that really irritates me with ebaY's second chance offer.

Of course you'd have been prepared to buy it for £100 (because that's what you bid), but if the 'winning' bid hadn't been placed, you'd have won the auction for far less, which the seller would have had to sell for (as there wasn't a reserve).

Second chance doesn't seem very well thought out.
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socorro
Level 5
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Agreed. The second chance price should be what it would have sold for in the absence of the "winning bid. In other words, the third highest bid, plus the relevant bid increment.

As a deliberate long-term strategy, I sometimes bid a bit more than I really want to pay, on the theory that the true bargains will balance out the occasional overpays.

I've seen the argument that you shouldn't complain if you are the victim of shill bidding because you can never pay more than you were willing to. I disagree. The top end of an aggressive bid is what I would reluctantly pay. What I would willingly pay is less than that. My typical bid takes into account that usually if I win at all, it will be for some amount between willing bargain and reluctant overpay.

To put it another way, if I regularly received second-chance offers, I would systematically adjust my maximum bids downward.

I'm sure there is psychological research on the game theory of auctions. I bet it is enlightening.
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muffmasterh
Level 7
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yes thats what should happen all the bids from the winning bidder should be removed if they don't complete and the 2nd offers should be based on that...

But missing out on a French push out HG......well at least we know there is another hehe !!
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evert180_0
Level 2
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RockySassoon,Mar 24 2014
12:01 PM

This week I had the case of someone trying to outbid me during the last few minutes in the smallest possible steps - then as he realised he went past my bid, he withdrew his last bid during the last two seconds, leaving me as the "lucky winner", ha ha...

I saw this first hand last week and it was weird to see.I was only watching the item but all of a sudden the price kept going up £4 at a time until the bidder became top and then his last bid vanished.You feel a bit shocked like you are seeing a crime like someone smashing a shop window and running off with some jewellery but are not sure what to do. I meant to get the sellers Id and post it on here but forgot to save to my watch list.It was cheeky to say the least. I have also won an auction this way and refused to pay.The seller wasn't happy till I said about the dodgy bids and he quickly cancelled the auction and even gave me positive feedback lol
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socorro
Level 5
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Yet another reason not to post an early max bid unless absolutely necessary.
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