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| Another Fake Demo On Ebay | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 12 2012, 03:06 PM (3,570 Views) | |
| servi | Sep 13 2012, 07:16 PM Post #31 |
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Level 5
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Why would someone buy an item with a PC COA from a seller that is not PC himself ? That's just stupid. Moreover, I can't understand why someone who spends big bucks on an item would need a COA anyway ? Either you have the knowledge and spend the money on a genuine item which you recognize as genuine, or you don't have the knowledge and should not spend the money. COAs don't bring any confidence IMO. On the contrary: they only accompany doubtful items like autographss and documents and it seems they are only there to artificially increase the sales price of an item. If they can fake passports and bank notes, how difficult can it be to fake some autographs (either signed by Beatles, Cox or Caiazzo) ? But that's my opinion and it may be too simple.... |
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| TheItalianFab4 | Sep 13 2012, 08:34 PM Post #32 |
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The old jingle of servi is totally right....and it's the same thing I tend to think. |
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| Dannyg | Sep 13 2012, 11:49 PM Post #33 |
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All, I have been lurking here for a while and want to chime in regarding the PPM demo. It's absolutely a fake. And it's a bad one. But I do have to say that I have watched the Ferroflex listings for a very long time and was so suspicious about them that I actually sent Perry an email about the two listings below because I was very puzzled as to whether he had actually authenticated them and authorized the listings' letters from Perry. http://cgi.ebay.com/BEATLES-Ill-Follow-Sun...864997862109766 http://cgi.ebay.com/BEATLES-Hello-Goodbye-...938544613386851 And the answer, to my great surprise was...yes he had. Now I am not sure if anything has changed but at least on those two listings it passed the Perry test. |
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| the57thbeatle | Sep 14 2012, 06:22 AM Post #34 |
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Ferroflex used to wander around record fairs with a bag full of acetates. They were always, without exceptions, unreleased versions or songs (but suspiciously only stuff that had previously been issued on bootlegs). Someone I know bought a few off him, but upon close inspection it turned out that they were fake. The real giveaway were the labels, which were clearly cut out, not machine-cut. Also, the perimeter text of some of his EmiDisc acetates was clearly wrong (it didn't have that 'flow' of a curved text). So, there are a few options here: 1) He actually does own some legit acetates which he is now selling and doesn't trade in fakes anymore 2) Perry Cox doesn't know his business (which I find hard to believe) If these acetates are legit, I'll eat my words, but I remain suspicious of them, considering what Ferroflex has sold in the past. |
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| servi | Sep 14 2012, 08:01 AM Post #35 |
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1) Unlikely. These look like fakes to me from a mile away. Ed is right, I have seen the guy at Utrecht record fairs as well. He had a bag of acetates, worth about $100k in total if real. Tried to sell them to dealers. I heard he burries them in the ground to give them their old look, that's why their labels all look similar. But maybe he is selling genuine ones and fakes to make it less obvious. I am not an expert on acetates at all, but it is "quite unlikely" that someone has a bag full of Apple/Beatles acetates for sale or puts a dozen on Ebay, including some with unreleased versions etc. 2) there are rumours of PC authenticating false autographs, probably not on purpose, see 2 identical Harrison autographs here . I can't make a judgement about this at all. But he is only human probably and the authenticated acetate here may be real, I don't know. But as said previously for me there is no bigger nonsense than COAs. Maybe they should now issue a COA with a COA to authenticate it. And the next step logically is a COA for a COA that authenticates the initial COA. BTW ,what do the experts here think of this Lennon autograph ? How can anyone ever tell such scribbling is real, except for the person who received the autograph ? And why did this "only" fetch $2499 ? |
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| the57thbeatle | Sep 14 2012, 08:55 AM Post #36 |
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OK, so much for Perry D. Cox's COAs. Stories like these render them absolutely useless. The GH autograph story is shocking. Although I have no reason to doubt the JL autograph is real (it looks exactly like the ones from that Marathon do I've seen before), I think it's telling that, indeed, it 'only' made $2,5K. Maybe people are starting to think PCs COAs aren't that reliable (anymore). Funny story in this respect (without intending to offend the seller, I don't know if he is on this forum): I recently bought an autographed item in Neil Aspinall's hand off a seller who also issues COAs and advertises himself as a Beatles autograph expert. (You can have your B autographs authenticated by him, for a premium. So you would assume he knows his trade). Anyway, the 4 autographs are indeed in NA's hand, but there's also a written dedication to a fan on the same item, which is clearly in Paul McCartney's hand!! Which the seller didn't recognize/describe as such, and would no doubt have made the item twice as expensive....... |
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| servi | Sep 14 2012, 09:59 AM Post #37 |
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What the GH autograph story shows is that forgeries these days are 100% perfect, there is no way to tell them apart from the genuine thing. And if the forgerer is able to give the fake some "variation" here and there, he can even create a new "genuine" autographs. Forensic scienctic investigation is the only possibility left to tell if they are real :D |
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| dawkie | Sep 15 2012, 07:24 PM Post #38 |
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEATLES-Mother-N...0&_qi=RTM687477 I wouldn't touch this one either. The labels do look cut out the57thbeatle. I'm amazed at the 100% feedback for this fellow? (What's the chance of many acetates ending up in BudaPEST anyway?) How on earth can anyone sell these and get away with it for so long? The culprits must have emidisc blanks and various equipment for cutting and if so, there must be thousands of them out there clouding the market. :angry: |
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| servi | Sep 15 2012, 07:54 PM Post #39 |
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And why would it be on 10" format anyway ? It's a 2:35 song... He also has a 2-sided (!) Hollies acetate and a 2-sided Mary Hopkin acetate, complete with track separation visible between the songs. Most probably the standard LPs with paste-on labels. Here is a great site with many Beatles acetates and tapes. Look how different most acetates on this side look when you compare them to the blemished ferroflex labels. |
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| TheItalianFab4 | Sep 15 2012, 10:30 PM Post #40 |
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I already knew that site servi....I sometimes check it, interesting but anything more, as we know with acetates it's all a story.... I have to say that being also half Hungarian, I cannot really understand this behaviour: how on earth could a Beatles acetate end in Milan or Budapest???? Even thgough it's very anoying....we know them and so we avoid.... We can write what we want, we can agree or not....but the truth is that unfortunately those people will continue to commit a big fraud, IMHO. |
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| givepeaceachance | Sep 17 2012, 02:34 PM Post #41 |
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Shouldnt this 'Demo' have the 45 Prefix before the number or are they known to exist without it? |
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| TheItalianFab4 | Sep 17 2012, 03:21 PM Post #42 |
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Yes, they should absolutely have it: for LMD is 45-R 4949 and for PPM is 45-R 4983. Anyway, I've boticed something strange: FMTY or AHDN seem not to have the 45 prefix....so I belive the answer is, yes, sometimes they have the prefix other timens they do not have it.... |
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| PMC7070 | Sep 17 2012, 04:54 PM Post #43 |
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The 45 prefix on Parlophone singles had gone by the time FMTY was released. I've seen it on R5000 but not on R5003 |
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| TheItalianFab4 | Sep 17 2012, 05:44 PM Post #44 |
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I think we can assume that the one here's a fake also because it does not have the prefix.... |
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| namralos | Sep 17 2012, 05:45 PM Post #45 |
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Re -- autographs Perry Cox and Frank Caiazzo are the only real "experts" in Beatles autographs, with Frank being the bigger name. He studies autographs from every period (1960's to present) and ONLY deals with Beatles autographs. I personally don't buy autographs unless I get them from a provenanced source, or unless they're cheap. Re -- the 45 prefix Yes, the 45- was gone just after R-5000. |
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