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Another Capitol Question
Topic Started: Mar 10 2012, 09:15 AM (460 Views)
samartin3
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Regarding the US singles again, it is my understanding that 'Twist And Shout/There's A Place' and 'Roll Over Beethoven/Misery' were released in mono, right? But was it the UK's mono? Or Capitol's mono? They sound pretty similar to me, apart from maybe a tiny bit more echo on the Capitol version, but that might just be me looking for a difference.

Thanks!
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RAK1955
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To try to answer your question. Remember that ALL the music came from The UK masters. Then what happened when it reached the US vinyl was another matter. And this 57-year-old Philadelphian teetering-on-the-brink-of-senility (well, almost) bum (almost-almost!) had them all!!. Twist & Shout/There's A Place were the VeeJay monos (so says all the online sources and official books), but, who can really tell? I had a "suitcase style" record player back then, and high fidelity wasn't a major concern to a 9-year-old back then. Then, having to have everything, I got the "Starline" singles which came out a year or so later. I also got the "Roll Over Beethoven"/"Misery" single as well. It was only years later that the online sources and expert books said that these 2 Starlines, as well as the other Starlines that were reissued, WERE INDEED stereo fold-downs. But at the time, who really cared. They sounded GREAT!!! That's all that mattered. Hope this helps, if only a little!! :D
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samartin3
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Yes it did help, thank you. I think you're saying 'There's A Place' and 'Misery' are definitely fold-downs from the stereo, which is fine for a completist like me who's trying to get it all, regardless of whether they are proper mixes or not. If it was released during the Beatles reign, that's all that matters.

Now here's a gentle friendly prod for your thoughts: you seem to be about as 'expert' on Beatles mixes as anyone, why don't you write a book?! :) There is a huge vacuum of information in this area, and it is a great shame and very frustrating. I can find enough information on label variations to fill a book the size of Saturn, but for some bizarre reason the mix variations (ie THE MUSIC!!) is hardly touched!

And RAK1955, if you are still in the vicinity of this thread, may I please ask you another mix question? Regarding Canadian 'narrow' and 'wide' mixes; are they legitimate mixes from the mid 60s? Or are they creations of the 80s and beyond?
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Garfield
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samartin3,Mar 16 2012
08:07 AM
Yes it did help, thank you. I think you're saying 'There's A Place' and 'Misery' are definitely fold-downs from the stereo, which is fine for a completist like me who's trying to get it all, regardless of whether they are proper mixes or not. If it was released during the Beatles reign, that's all that matters.

Now here's a gentle friendly prod for your thoughts: you seem to be about as 'expert' on Beatles mixes as anyone, why don't you write a book?! :) There is a huge vacuum of information in this area, and it is a great shame and very frustrating. I can find enough information on label variations to fill a book the size of Saturn, but for some bizarre reason the mix variations (ie THE MUSIC!!) is hardly touched!

And RAK1955, if you are still in the vicinity of this thread, may I please ask you another mix question? Regarding Canadian 'narrow' and 'wide' mixes; are they legitimate mixes from the mid 60s? Or are they creations of the 80s and beyond?

You should look out for this book:
http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=501687
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RAK1955
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Thank You samartin3, & Garfield also. Well....I think I may have mentioned that I loaned out my thoughts on a book that was compiled as far back as 1982 (really!!) but not put out until 1990. It was by the 2 guys who ran a site called Ticket To Ryde Ltd. in Washington state. I had put input in the book during the 80s, especially during 1986. I had written here in one of my postings about my getting a "1983 rainbow reissue" label of Beatles VI in 1986 and finding the darned thing played in dedicated MONO on both sides 1 & 2, even though there were NO mono markings, on the vinyl OR the cover! (in other words, the jacket had the usual "New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo"). I have that book somewhere in my mess of my apartment....now finding it is another matter indeed. And, Garfield, I also have the book you mentioned as well! Very informative too. So, I should have written a book MANY MOONS ago, when it would have mattered!! Now it would be just another one lost in the shuffle!! But, before my mind goes entirely to senility, I will try to post some thoughts here if it helps!!! In the meantime, thank you again for your well-wishes, and the same to you both, and everyone else here!!!! :D
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RAK1955
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Oops!! Forget your question! As far as the "narrow" & "wide" mixes....those came out much later.....they didn't come out during the 60s. Only the MONO issues came out in Canada in the 60s. Don't know why....but, all information seems to comfirm this one.
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samartin3
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Once again, thank you RAK1955, I will weed the narrow and wide mixes out of my growing pile of confusion.

And Garfield...why didn't anyone tell me this before!?!?!

I have typed different variations of the following words 'beatles mix mono stereo' about 200 hundred times over the past 15 years, and this book NEVER CAME UP!!!

Anyway, I read your post 5 minutes ago, and bought the book from Ebay 3 minutes ago, so THANKS!! :D
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RAK1955
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A bit more of some of my rather boring rants: Around the summer of 1977, a friend of mine visited Montreal, and he picked up for me some Canadian Albums (surprise!!): Twist & Shout, Long Tall Sally & Beatlemania! (My requests at the time) They were all on the Capitol Orange label, & they were all in MONO, and rather very good-sounding mono at that! Canadian issues said Monaural on the labels; here in the states, the only time that "MONO" was on the label of Beatle records were in the mid-70s, and that was on particular orange-label reissues of 45s (Los Angeles factory I believe), and some later "Old Purple" reissue 45s from around 1978 or so (gets rather confusing, but, yes, I DID have them back then!!) Now, cut to around 1981....this friend of mine was going to Canada again....and I had him buy me the same albums (hey, I was a collector at the time!!) This time, they were on the "Old Purple Label"...The Canadian version, that is. Funny thing, some of the tracks were scattered about in STEREO. In the case of BEATLEMANIA....one side was in EXTREMELY NARROW STEREO, and the other side was the VERY WIDE STEREO. The records are long gone, and my memory has forgotten which side was which, but I DO remember the wide/narrow thingee! So THAT does tell me that the STEREO issue didn't come into play until at least 1981!! I warned you it will be boring!! Till next time!! Ross (aka RAK1955) :)
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samartin3
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It turns out your boring rants are very informative, and are therefore most welcome!
:)
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RAK1955
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Thank You My Friend!! I will be back here again when my memory ignites with some more remembrances!!! Stay well!! ;)
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namralos
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Regarding the US singles again, it is my understanding that 'Twist And Shout/There's A Place' and 'Roll Over Beethoven/Misery' were released in mono, right? But was it the UK's mono? Or Capitol's mono? They sound pretty similar to me, apart from maybe a tiny bit more echo on the Capitol version, but that might just be me looking for a difference.

If you're referring to the Star Line singles, they were indeed fold-downs from stereo. Likewise the album, the Early Beatles, was a fold down from stereo. In fact, if you play the Capitol release of "Please, Please Me"/"From Me to You," you'll see that both songs were fold downs from stereo. Capitol had "From Me to You" in stereo in October, 1965...but since it didn't appear on an album until 1973, they didn't release it in stereo until then.

When Capitol reissued "Twist and Shout"/"There's a Place" in 1986, both songs were in stereo.

"Roll Over Beethoven" had been on the Beatles Second Album. The mono mix was a Type B (fold-down) mix there, too. On that song, though, it doesn't matter much. But to get the true mono mix of "Misery" in the US, you had to pick up a copy of the Vee Jay album. That's odd, too, because the true stereo mix of "Misery" didn't appear in the USA until Rarities in 1980.

------------------------

The Canadian Beatlemania album appears in stereo as early as the orange label, but only later orange-label copies have it. Your copy is odd, having the narrowed stereo on one side only.

The Canadian Meet the Beatles has an alternate version of "Don't Bother Me" -- but only on certain later copies of the LP.

The Canadian Long Tall Sally album eventually (1983?) got released in true stereo.

My favorite release in the "is it stereo" regard are the LA pressings of the "Hey Jude"/"Revolution" single on the orange and purple labels. Although the labels read MONO, "Revolution" is in stereo on many of these. Reportedly, although I don't have one, there are copies with "Hey Jude" in stereo, too.

Then there are the colored vinyl singles from 1993-6.
"Can't Buy Me Love"/"You Can't Do That" -- a side stereo, b-side mono
"Help!"/"I'm Down" -- a side stereo, b-side mono
"A Hard Day's Night"/"Things We Said Today" -- both sides stereo (interesting at the time, since TWST was available only in mono)
"Yellow Submarine"/"Eleanor Rigby" -- both sides are the true mono mixes
"Twist and Shout"/"There's a Place" -- Unlike the 1986 version, this time both sides are mono.
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samartin3
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Thank you for that information.

So, trying to get my head around this...the starline singles are mono fold downs from the original stereo mixes. This makes them a different version of mono than the original UK mono mixes, yes? They sound pretty much the same to me, but as long as the way they were created was different, for my purposes that's all that matters.
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namralos
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"Please, Please Me" -- The stereo mix was edited from different takes. Most notably, on the third verse, John errs in singing "Why, no, I never even try, girl." The true mono mix has these lyrics correct.

"From Me to You" -- The stereo mix is missing the harmonica during the intro ("da da da, da da dun dun da"). This was just an oversight, as the harmonica edit piece was on a different tape.

"Misery" -- If I recall right, the edit of the intro to the rest of the song is slightly longer in the stereo mix, but you wouldn't notice it here. The Star Line single (or at least the 1971 reissue thereof) has some notes missing at the beginning of the song. That is, it has a late fade-in.
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samartin3
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Again, good information, thank you!!
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