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Yellow Submarine, Abbey Road And Let It Be; Post your variations!
Topic Started: Jun 29 2010, 09:34 PM (841 Views)
Nowhere Man
Level 2
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Hi All,

Just to let you know that I have decided to force the issue on the missing labelographies. Under the 'New Variations' section I have posted a topic for each of the three missing labels. I have posted images of the variations that I have, but these will clearly not be anything like comprehensive! :P

Please feel free to add any that you have and hopefully we'll soon get a good idea of exactly what is out there. Also, please correct any errors I might have made.

With a bit of luck when Andy and Mike get it back together this will help speed up the official labelographies completion.

Cheers,

John
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Will Cambell
Level 2
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Hi,

Well done John, Andy and Steve have no excuse now not to try and finish off the Labelographies.

That’s an interesting variation on your ‘Let it Be’ (LitB) later copy, Ive just checked my copies, I have a later ie matt lighter green label thinner font, LitB with a similar ‘bunched up’ label layout, Green side. And that side B side with the twin ring on….corr never seen one of those on ANY Beatle LP….nice.

WC.
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muffmasterh
Level 7
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I was going to tackle the white Album up to 1973 but I keep finding new varaitions even just up to 1973...I think I have about 7 so far just from 1971-3

I look forward to checking these new ones out, until recently I didn't realise that there are two different dark label varaitions of LIB ...
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britinvasion64
Level 1
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Quote:
 
Well done John, Andy and Steve have no excuse now not to try and finish off the Labelographies.


Actually Will, it's Andy and Mike, and I guess it might surprise you that some people have lives.
That doesn't even take into account the fact I've mentioned more than once...that you have managed to drive many contributing members off site from sheer boredom! Thanks again for that. We can only hope you'll someday be able to raise the quality of the postings back to the interest level they were once at. :unsure:

...Carl
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Nowhere Man
Level 2
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Hey Carl,

When you first joined you may recall I gave you a warm welcome. I am disappointed that your posts now seem to consist entirely of unnecessary and unwanted personal abuse. Can I suggest that you contribute positively where you can and just ignore topics and posts that don't interest you.

We all have different interests (I'm not terribly bothered about Singles) but a little tolerance of each other's particular 'thing' means we all get along and have the chance to benefit from the wide range of knowledge and experience that all of the members have.

Cheers,

John
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Will Cambell
Level 2
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Hi,

britinvasion64 is out of his coffin again…..thank you for that worthless boring piece of information that you continue to pollute this Forum with, is that your contribution this month ?, its sad that you are so jealous and envious of my knowledge and interest in Beatle records that you have to attack me and other good people of this Forum… Johnny ‘no mates’ britinvasion64 …. !

WC.
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muffmasterh
Level 7
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maybe Carl can post something on something that he is interested in and we can respond to that....
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Easy-E
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Level 3
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britinvasion64,Jun 30 2010
12:31 PM
Quote:
 
Well done John, Andy and Steve have no excuse now not to try and finish off the Labelographies.


Actually Will, it's Andy and Mike, and I guess it might surprise you that some people have lives.
That doesn't even take into account the fact I've mentioned more than once...that you have managed to drive many contributing members off site from sheer boredom! Thanks again for that. We can only hope you'll someday be able to raise the quality of the postings back to the interest level they were once at. :unsure:

...Carl

Carl, as you well know no one on this forum has not listened to all of the 219 tracks many hundreds of times - I know for me I easily recite every lyric and can clearly hear every note and drum beat in my head. No, we dont come here to discuss the music (much). I suppose it is taken as read that we know the minute (should be an accent over the 'e') of every recording (and then some for the Beatleg afficiandos).

No, after the multiple pleasures of discovering every nuance of the music come exploring every nuance of the released product(s). Despite what you may think this is not uncommon with, well, serious collectors of all kinds. Serious collecting of anything requires a comprehensive knowledge of the collectables concerned. Without the benefit of knowing the differences between what it is you are after and what you are looking at, you can and will get caught paying hard earned moola on something that doesn't warrant it.

Also as well you know considerable time, effort and money must be expended to get past the just listening phase. And to actually listen to all the tracks there were released, to "hear the music", you will eventually have to hunt down and spend a sizeable amont of money on a an XEX606-1 "Revolver". I'm also sure you know what that means. Cos Im also pretty sure you do know what caper is all about but you're just being a smart a*** and are intent on knocking things rather than either contributing or simply saying nothing. I doubt if anyone doesn't write cos theyre finding the threads "boring".

Collecting is not just gathering things together. It is, I find, a diminishing skill. Things like the net and ebay make it very easy to get a "full " collection together relativly quickly. Basically any idiot can do. The skill comes from the shared knowledge of aformentioned afficianodos in sorting the wheat from the chaff as there is a lot of chaff. As well I think you'll find a fair few "completists" here and that particular affliction requires vast amonts or detailed knowledge and it all comes from sharing.

By all means discuss the music, no one here is gonna object, but flaming Will and by inference, Henry, over inner sleeves is lame. It's not like the discussion is on a "Oh yeah I love that - Oh yeah me too" or " I think Paul is best" "No, John is". level. If Will wants to get the inner sleeves sorted on his LP collection (and I bet lots of others are benefitting from the discussion too - I know I am) and can benefit from Henrys considerable knowledge on this subject then I for one say go right ahead. I dont see you suggesting an alternative topic. Feel free to start a thread anytime.

Or you may want to find a less disciplined forum to vent your spleen and you may also want to listen to the music as bit more so you can hear it in your head and then you can progress to to more (potentially) interesting and esoteric matters. :D
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yarvelling
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Level 3
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Well said H, Will, John, Easy-E!

Carl;
There are plenty of other forums available if you DO want to aimlessly argue over which Beatle was best, or which song is best, I suggest you you step down and join their squabblings.
This forum is for those of us interested in the minutea maybe, and making sure that we have the diffinitive best of the available, and hard-to-find vinyl that still exists. As Easy said, we know the songs, we're comfortable with who we believe is the best Beatle, and what-not, but as collectors, we want the best product, and are fascinated by all the minor label differences, inner sleeve differences, etc...these things tell a story, a story that many of us are actively involved in unravelling and telling, with every new variation found.
If you don't want to be part of that story, fine. Go elsewhere; read another book.
I don't like many things that others do; Dan Brown books, Picasso, country music...but instead of infiltrating their interest forums, I stay here, read and learn a lot, and sometime post pictures of my findings, or special records, join in discussions, etc...
You should do the same....
Somewhere else.

steve.
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muffmasterh
Level 7
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personally I always liked John best, he was my hero way before it was fashionable ( ie before he was shot ) however thats probably the subject for another thread - or even forum lol...

And one of my least favourite Beatles LP's is the White Album....show me the way Carl..
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britinvasion64
Level 1
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Quote:
 
There are plenty of other forums available if you DO want to aimlessly argue over which Beatle was best, or which song is best, I suggest you you step down and join their squabblings.

I agree Steve, those Forums have already hit rock bottom!

Quote:
 
maybe Carl can post something on something that he is interested in and we can respond to that....

Thanks Henry...I really enjoyed the earlier dicussions on first pressing identification, the logic and apparent discrepancies of EMI's stamping system, and things of that ilk, which at present, like other aspects of vinyl collecting, unfortunately, cannot always be pinned down with complete certainty - here's hoping that Bruce S. will gain access to those elusive EMI production records during the research for his book.
While some tend to believe that the Matrix, Mother, Stamper information is the way to identify a first pressing, there is the equally valid response that a pressing plant(s) would have many presses in action simultaneously producing the same record, therefore the stamping system could never be a sure way of dating - in fact the information was actually used for audit/quality control purposes by EMI.

Another method for distinguishing pressings, the standard which seems to be the one adopted by price guide compilers, is to assume that only one pressing equates to one particular label design. Of course, I know everyone here recognizes the complications of contract vinyl pressings and multiple label printers for the same release at the same time.
The price guide compilers apparently don't take into consideration that the same recording may be pressed at more than one plant, and that where one may have a sufficient supply of one label design and uses that, another plant has already exhausted their stock of the same design and is using a different design. Basing first pressings solely on label design is not completely accurate either.
Again, I know you all are aware of this, and your goal is to reconcile these differences with the available information and some reasonable logical deduction. I suppose my difficulty is with the way the information is coming out in "dribs and drabs" scattered over a number of Forum topics - it's a complicated task, of course, but it would be less annoying to view something in a more collated and concise form...but I suppose we're all now going to wait for Bruce's publication.
Another discussion that began here but was never really brought to a conclusion at the time was the definition of terms such as "pressing", "variation", etc. It seems to me that collectors have a difficult time breaking from the often erroneous "old school" of thought. Our individual expectations of how various terms are defined are obviously not the same and there seems to be a reluctance to break ranks even in the face of the obvious.

Anyway, since you asked...there you have it.

...Carl
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muffmasterh
Level 7
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indeed, I think you guys in the States have mega complications with the differing pressing plants, I can't help on those sadly as my knowledge is mostly on UK pressings.

Even here it's a confusing picture, with the labels comming in from the printers being married up with the vinyl meant that not always the earliest vinyl got married up with the earliest labels, I have a 1G WA for example with EMI Recording labels.

Also I subsribe to the theory that labels oftern got mixed up in the stock room so earlier labels could sometimes re-arrear much later, we see that on Solid centred EP's with Parlophone co rims, personally I do not believe that they printed Parl rimmed labels in 1967 but prefer to believe they were old labels from stock being used up...
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namralos
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Theories that Bruce and I are testing:

1. Whenever a batch of labels was ordered and came back from the printer(s), Parlophone continued to use those labels until they ran out completely. So for example, if they had a punch of Parlophone-rim labels printed in 1964 and they didn't run out until 1969, so be it. This is borne out beginning with the Beatles' first single. I have seen "Love Me Do" on the RED label with a KT tax code, and LMD does not exist on the black label with 45-R- prefix. Most likely, they kept using red labels until the stock ran out.

2. EMI kept stocks of labels around and merely took some side-ones and some side-twos when they were needed. Mismatched labels (side 1 vs. side 2) are EVERYWHERE. I find it difficult to find 3 different "original" stereo copies of the Magical Mystery Tour EP such that each copy has all four labels properly matched. Specifically, I'm looking for the three label styles, and at least one label almost always seems to be mismatched.

3. More often than not, label styles ID'd by the guides as being separate issues merely represent labels printed by two or more printers, and the records were released at the same time. Mismatched labels having different styles are also not uncommon.

4. Sometimes, there was a single, "FIRST" label style, but at other times there were several that were available in the shops on the first day of release.

Bruce leaves for Great Britain tomorrow morning and hopefully will return with the answers to these and other (in)significant questions.

Frank
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muffmasterh
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That theory about LMD sounds spot on to me Frank, I had a Black/Gold stereo Peter Sellers LP with a KT tax code on it so they must just have kept the using the labels till they ran out - H
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Will Cambell
Level 2
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Hi,

Yepp and maybe that explains why the ‘With the Beatles’ LP in the 60s, never got its official small Mono on the sleeve ( although I DO have one … hee hee ! ) and the Mono label never got its ‘Sold in the UK’ text, as the huge demand for this LP in late 1963, EMI may have over printed the sleeves and labels that would last up until 1970 !, and by then Mono was scraped (sadly !).

WC.

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