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Hey Jude / Revolution; Apple R 5722
Topic Started: Mar 22 2010, 08:27 AM (8,439 Views)
Garfield
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muffmasterh,Jan 14 2012
10:41 PM
I did say my initial picture of the labels would probably not help much as the texturing resembles CBS, thats why I took the other one to show the " bump " sadly I'm the only one who can see the actual vinyl and thats the give away.

Polydor label pressings from this period also seem to have shiny push out labels yet textured solids and I have no idea why that would be or if that has any relevance anyway.

Thanks 57th I wasn't sure if your first pictured CBS might actually be a philips but if you have two CBS's then you will be able to tell that they are the same weight and feel and have the " knife edge " to them.

I've been looking at some of my solid CBS and PYE singles from this period and there is one hell of a cross over. I have PYE labels that look like they were pressed by CBS and CBS's that look like they were pressed by PYE...its very messy, it looks like those companies were sharing pressing plants 1969-71 but only for solids, either that or they were doing a lot of contract pressings for each other... not helpful at all...

Even if I said earlier, this solid centre copy matches 1 of my 2 3-prong copies in texture and the "additional ridging"- detail.
This copy has KT at 12-position on both sides and a "3" printed right of the matrix, but upside down.

My other 3-prong copy has much smoother texture, no additional ridging, KT on both sides, a 1 at 9-position on A, and a 3(or5) at 9-position on B-side.
This is similar to 4 different copies of Apple 2 I own, even if these have really shiny smooth labels.

So either all Apple 2 push-outs are Philipps, then the rough textured solid and 3 prong copies of HJ aren't.
Maybe these are Polydors instead ?????
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muffmasterh
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indeed and Like I said before maybe we should be calling these polydors instead of Philips.

However Philips and polydor were the same in the UK, they used the same presses, and even used the same inner sleeves for their LP's. Maybe Frank may have more knowledge about the UK philips/polydor connection to flesh this relationship out ?

However by 1968 there were 3 types of Philips/polydor pressings that I am aware of, the tri-pronged, the solid and the new for 1968 juke box.

Both Philips and polydor used all three but in 1968 the majority of philips were Juke boxes whereas only a minority of Polydors were Juke boxes ( I have anyone for tennis by Cream as a juke )

I should make clear that the juke boxes were not solids or tri centres with a hole bored out like the apple jukes but a distinct variant all by themselves. If you have a juke box philips you will understand what I mean
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Garfield
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muffmasterh,Jan 15 2012
05:06 PM
indeed and Like I said before maybe we should be calling these polydors instead of Philips.

However Philips and polydor were the same in the UK, they used the same presses, and even used the same inner sleeves for their LP's. Maybe Frank may have more knowledge about the UK philips/polydor connection to flesh this relationship out ?

However by 1968 there were 3 types of Philips/polydor pressings that I am aware of, the tri-pronged, the solid and the new for 1968 juke box.

Both Philips and polydor used all three but in 1968 the majority of philips were Juke boxes whereas only a minority of Polydors were Juke boxes ( I have anyone for tennis by Cream as a juke )

I should make clear that the juke boxes were not solids or tri centres with a hole bored out like the apple jukes but a distinct variant all by themselves. If you have a juke box philips you will understand what I mean

Also Apple 2 exist as a 3-prong push-out with the rough texture and the ridged edge.
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muffmasterh
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I also have an Apple 2 Philips/Polydor...

I may have found something else, everybody check their Philips/Polydors...where they have two stamper numbers the numbers are at 90 degrees to each other, in other words one of the numbers is on its side in comparision to matrix and the other number...

The solid centre HJ also has this same configeration...one of the numbers is on it's side in comparison to the matrix and the other number...
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Garfield
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muffmasterh,Jan 15 2012
06:55 PM
I also have an Apple 2 Philips/Polydor...

I may have found something else, everybody check their Philips/Polydors...where they have two stamper numbers the numbers are at 90 degrees to each other, in other words one of the numbers is on its side in comparision to matrix and the other number...

The solid centre HJ also has this same configeration...one of the numbers is on it's side in comparison to the matrix and the other number...

After searching through different 1968/69 Polydor and Philips UK-labels in 45cat, I guess, that the 3 prong issues of HJ and Apple 2 with a smooth or shiny texture are Philips pressings like known before, but the 3-prong with rough texture and ridge at the edge of the label and the solid copy with rough texture from Muffmasterh are very likely Polydor pressings.
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muffmasterh
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A further update...the number that is NOT on it's side is upside down in relation to the matrix.

My Apple 2 tri prong has a 6 and 6 on both sides, again one of the 6's on each side is on its side..this is the same configeration as on my solid " polydor " HJ and also my tri-pronged HJ..regardless of the numbers I believe all these philips polydors may have an upside down number and another number on it's side in comparison to the matrix.

So check your philips/polydors everybody if we have a number on the side and another number upside down in comparison to the matrix - regardless of what the number is - then we may have this nailed at last.

PS be careful with the upside down number, use a magnifying glass, I have been looking at them as if they were the right way up so have been mis-identifying 2's as 5's, 6's as 9's and 3's as 8's......so look carefully and turn the disc around...

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Baard
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Well I'm not quite sure what to look for Henry, but here are the numbers on my tri-prong....
Numbers are relative with the matrix at 6 o'clock, and I turn the disk so the numbers in question are at the bottom
Side one:
At 7 is an eight upside down, at 9 a three on the side
Side two:
At 9 is a six on the side, and at 1 a nine

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muffmasterh
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Thats great Baard, we are establishing a pattern, an upside down number and the other on its side...

Basically I know the that solid I have is a Polydor/Philips Solid but I am trying to establish a way that others will be able to recognise these as photo's and scans are insufficient.

It could be that these upside down and numbers on the side stampers are they way to go.

So far my solid has them and all of my tri-centres, and now your tri centre too...
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Garfield
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Easy-E,Jan 7 2012
12:40 AM
It interesting that my Pye push out has the same label irregularity in the same spot under the credits, like the labels they used was somehow affected by the pressing process - heat?

At my request, here are the scans from Easy-E:
Posted Image
Posted Image
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namralos
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The upside-down number would indeed nail it.

My Philips 3-prong has upside-down numbering also, but on
one side only.

Hey Jude side:
"5" at 9:00
upside-down "7" at 5:00

Revolution side:
"5" at 9:00
no apparent second number anywhere

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muffmasterh
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That is the same arrangement as my solid Frank

Hey Jude has a 1 that is upside down and what looks like an 8 on it's side

on Revolution I also only have the one number a 3 which from memory is also on its side...

I do not think CBS or Pyes could have anything like that arrangement of the numbers.

However my tri-centre HK and Apple 2 do have 2 numbers on both sides. again always upside down and on it s side.

Nonetheless give or take the extra number on the B side I think we may have enough evidence now to identify any future potential Philips/Polydor solids as pictures do not help much .....and where there is one there must be others

It would be nice if I had the only one but that would be greedy lol !!
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Garfield
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Baard,Jan 15 2012
07:57 PM
Well I'm not quite sure what to look for Henry, but here are the numbers on my tri-prong....
Numbers are relative with the matrix at 6 o'clock, and I turn the disk so the numbers in question are at the bottom
Side one:
At 7 is an eight upside down, at 9 a three on the side
Side two:
At 9 is a six on the side, and at 1 a nine

Can you tell us, if it has the rough texture too and the ridge like on the solid centre???
My push-out centre 3-prong copy with rough texture (now Polydor I think) is on side 6 of this thread for comparsion. It has the same ridge like Muffmasterh solid centre version.
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Ray7027
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My HJ is a push out with with upside down 6 on both sides @ 7 o'clock and rough labels.
Apple 2 push out no number side one and an upside down 5 on side two @ 7 o'clock with
rough labels.
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Baard
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It has a smooth texture and a ridge, pic on first side in this thread
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Garfield
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Baard,Jan 16 2012
05:39 PM
It has a smooth texture and a ridge, pic on first side in this thread

Thanks, this is clearly a Philips, like my second copy, see the difference to my Polydor copy on side 6 (still labeled as Philips).
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