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| Inner Sleeves Id Page; challange the muffmaster with your inner | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 10 2009, 04:13 PM (3,462 Views) | |
| muffmasterh | Apr 16 2010, 11:13 PM Post #46 |
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Level 7
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No Will its UK....I think it should have made in GB on it somewhere ?? near the bottom?? it seems that this 1st attempt at a UK advertsing inner EMI included nearly all their labels, when they re-appear a few months later only HMV Columbia and Parlophone are included, Capitol and Tamla Motown get their own dedicated ad inners and the other labels stay with the plain white patents pending sleeve. |
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| Will Cambell | Apr 17 2010, 10:58 AM Post #47 |
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Level 2
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The alternative Black and White EMI advertising inner sleeve with Rubber Soul on it. Hi, Yes you are quite correct ‘H’ is does say ‘Made and printed in England’. Thing is, I’ve NEVER seen a copy of Rubber Soul (RS) with a Black and White inner sleeve, but as this inner sleeve in question is so unusual maybe that may count for that. It seems that these sleeves were made in very small batchs for a very short while !. I have also never seen a Revolver remix 11,…. with a Black and White advertising sleeve. So,…. from the evidence we have….. it seems that these inner sleeves could have been in circulation from say March 1966 up until August 1966 ? working on the assumption that this inner sleeve was actually REPLACED by the more familiar Black and White inner with ‘Oldies and ‘Rev’ on !, which seems to come in on the 2/2 Mono matrix copies of Revolver, dates ! Oct 66 ?. So it is possible that this sleeve could appear on a 4/4 matrix RS, or a 2/2 matrix Stereo RS record then ?... Be interesting to see if anyone can come forward and say if they have this inner sleeve with a Beatle LP. I wont rest you know, until we have this resolved !...lol…. WC. |
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| muffmasterh | Apr 18 2010, 07:01 PM Post #48 |
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Level 7
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Will I can try to be a bit more precise with the dates.. You are right, this " Rubber Soul " advertising sleeve must have been produce for a very short time as it is so rare. The dates for this are late 1966 early 1967 so your dates are probably a little early Will. I reckon this ad inner was a trial/ test bed for the future ad inners However the more common " Revolver " ad sleeve seems to come in in late 1967, this means that there was a gap between the two ad inners. Probably while they revamped it This would be filled by the " patents applied for " plain white inner " which EMI used from about May 66 till early 69. These ran alongside the advertising inners and after the arrival of the Revolver ad inner and the late 68 Sepia ad inner were used on EMI labels like MGM, Dot, Verve Command etc etc As for Rubber Souls in Black advertsing inners, I reckon that there must be some, there certainly are many Rubber Souls that come with the Sepia ad inner...
Yes in theory, or maybe even a -5-5 mono RS as I am not sure of the dates for the switch from -4-4 |
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| Will Cambell | Apr 22 2010, 09:53 AM Post #49 |
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Level 2
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Hi, The alternative Black and White EMI advertising inner sleeve with Rubber Soul on it - cont. Have a look at a current UK Ebay auction site, item no. 140400889937….. A Collection of Album…… one of these inner sleeves has appeared, you were right ‘H’ (no surprise there) about the circulation dates of this inner sleeve, (always assuming this inner sleeve IS the original one with the said record). Also its an E J Day sleeve, but as with the White Album wide spines, I think the E J Day sleeves by 1966 were printed ‘willy nilly’ and does not suggest E J Day sleeves were the first ones to be printed !. Re the ‘Sepia ad inner’... or the 16 box each side EMI adverting red and white sleeve, I have only seen Yellow and Black copies of Rubber Soul with this sleeve on the Stereo 3/3 matrix !, or later Mono / Stereo copies without the ‘ Sold in’ text that dates from …. what…late 1968 ?. WC. |
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| muffmasterh | Apr 22 2010, 05:03 PM Post #50 |
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Level 7
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Thats right Will, late 68 but I think the -3-3 matrix may have come in earlier than that. That inner sleeve runs through all the way from late 68 to late 1970, you see a lot of one boxes with these inners. They were replaced by the other " sepia " inner with the PXS1 LIB on it, however EMI also were issuing various white " patents numbered " inners as well at the same time running alongside. Most early pressings of Oldies come in EJDAYS's in fact I've never seen an early one in a Garrod however I do think that later the EJ Day sleeves did run alongside the Garrords but I think first pressings only came in EJ Day but that is purely my opinion. |
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| Will Cambell | Apr 22 2010, 06:19 PM Post #51 |
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Level 2
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Hi, Ok ‘H’ good, but have you seen the copy of the Misaligned Apple, Abbey Rd the same seller has ?.mmmmm a first press misaligned Apple, DARK green apple label …. WITH an ‘Apple inner’ mmm that’s not original for a first press is it ? If this seller is swapping the inners….. bang goes our once piece of evidence for trying to tie in dates of this ‘ Collection of ’ inner !. WC. |
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| billstiggins | Apr 22 2010, 09:12 PM Post #52 |
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Level 3
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My misaligned copy comes with an Apple sleeve and I can't believe that the sleeve would have been swapped; after all, it surely wouldn't have raised the asking price - I bought this from a record fair in Manchester about 10 years ago for £40, so there were no lurid ebaY headlines about "mega rare inner sleeve" etc :D At the time, I was actually disappointed that mine didn't come with a black inner, though everything was in A1 condition, so I got over that - at least I did until I saw another copy (admittedly in slightly lower Ex condition) that had the Apple poster with it - for about £30. And I didn't buy it... :( |
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| muffmasterh | Apr 22 2010, 10:55 PM Post #53 |
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Level 7
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the inner may have been swapped before the seller aquired it and or the fact that one has been swapped doesn't mean the other was. Abbey road first appeared with a plain white patents number inner but some may also have had the black inner. However the Apple inner only appears in 1971-2 so in theory it cannot come with a mis-aligned sleeve unless a box of mis-aligneds got lost in the stock room and re-appeared in 1971 - not likely but stranger things may have happened!! I base a lot of what I know in handling the best copies, when in top top condition they tend to be unmolested and their constituant parts less likely to have been mucked around withand authenticity much more relied upon . if you look at that particular listing it doesn't fall into that catagory i think, my gut instinct very much is that it is a swap |
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| Will Cambell | Apr 23 2010, 10:54 AM Post #54 |
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Level 2
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Hi, I tend to do the same as you ‘H’, judge the best condition records for their originality. See the attached photo, while on the subject of nice original vinyl, the last record farye I went to I was lucky enough to get to have a real good look at a 2nd press White Album, ie side opener, 7 digit number, dark green apples, it was all original, and in ex+ condition, even down to its original paper spacer !, the guy wanted £100, a bargain I thought, I didn’t buy it as I already have a very low number 2nd press all complete. Oddly one of the dark green apple labels HAD the ‘Sold in the’ text on ! the other three labels correctly didn’t. But I noticed the two white inner sleeves were odd !, one was a rarity, with TWO ‘Patents’ numbers on !, the other had just one ‘Patent’ number on !….. From my photo, I got this inner with a misaligned Apple Abbey Road, curious it has one of these what appears to be TWO ‘Patent’ numbers on !. Again LPs with these more unusual inners may help us to more accurately date Beatle LPs (always assuming that they haven’t been changed !). WC. http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/21...105482530kCyLfv |
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| billstiggins | Apr 23 2010, 04:06 PM Post #55 |
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Interesting stuff. As I mentioned, the copy of Abbey Road I picked up was in perfect condition - sleeve, inner and vinyl. It certainly felt right as a complete package - so your suggestion that the misaligned sleeves were used with later issues may well be right. Although I don't dispute your suggestion that inners may have been swapped, I'm wondering why anyone would have bothered - presumably they had another Apple LP and figured that the sleeve would enhance the price or Abbey Road rather than the other LP they had? |
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| muffmasterh | Apr 24 2010, 12:32 AM Post #56 |
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Level 7
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Things get swapped for variety of reasons, mostly innocent but sometimes you will see examples of people putting the wrong inners with LP's because they think they are the correct ones, like you see a lot of Revolvers now with Emitex rice paper inners when they should be plain white or later advertising ones. My gut instinct is still swap, but like I say strange things do happen! Thats a really interesting inner sleeve Will, in late 1969 and onwards into the 70's EMI used a variety of different plain white patents number inners. I suspect this could be an example of one type and in the case of that WA it could be an example of two correct but different types of inner. That is possibe. My 7 dig side opener also has SIUK on one side one so is a true early cross over. As such it should probably have black inners but at this time ( August 1969 ) the black inners were on their way out so white patent inners could also be correct too... |
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| Will Cambell | May 26 2010, 01:58 PM Post #57 |
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Hi, I have just received a 5/ 5 mono matrix Rubber Soul (RS)… it has a curious inner sleeve, see photo, it has come in a plastic inner (polylined) Emitex and the top two opening edges run clean straight across !, the rest of the sleeve is made of the normal lighter gauge paper with ‘Made in England’ on, Q: a. should a 5 / 5 matrix RS have a polylined inner ? b. these regular Emitex Beatle inners normally have a ‘wavy’ pattern to the two opening edges whether it be a tissue paper or polylined… but this one hasn’t ! Its difficult to know when these 5 / 5 matrix records were pressed, 1966, 67, 68 ? and by then the Emitex’s were no longer used. WC. http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/20...105482530SwZjkh |
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| muffmasterh | May 26 2010, 09:00 PM Post #58 |
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Level 7
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Will its a variation of a 62- 64 emitex polylined, defo a swap... |
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| Will Cambell | May 26 2010, 10:15 PM Post #59 |
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Hi, OK 'H' thanks for that.... i thought as much. WC. |
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| Will Cambell | Jun 18 2010, 09:32 AM Post #60 |
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Hi, The alternative Black and White EMI advertising inner sleeve with Rubber Soul on it - cont. Just spotted one of these rare alternative inner sleeves on a 2/2 matrix copy of Revolver, first copy of Revolver I have seen with this inner sleeve, check it out on Ebay US, item no. 110547497506. It all helps us to establish when these inner sleeves were used and when they were no longer issued, this is always assuming that they ARE the original inner sleeve that first came with the LP !. WC. |
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