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Comic for 2 April 2012; Before the devil remembers he's dead
Topic Started: Apr 2 2012, 03:55 PM (274 Views)
Minivet
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Undead Pixie Wrangler
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OK, right again about it being a black eye from George.
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Chrysophase2003
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Jealous Reader, Unpublished Writer
So a ghost can inflict harm on the living? Scary thought. Is that reliant on the strength of the ghost, like with Franklin too?

Seems like they've got an insurmountable advantage over the living then. Numbers and the ability to hurt the living, but hurting the dead really doesn't do much. Aside from Hope temporarily banishing them for reasons we've yet to learn. I wonder if Abe knows and refuses to tell.

Now I really worry about all the famous serial killers we put to death. Ed Gein must be having a field day. The same for Richard Kuklinski when he finally kicks the bucket.

And if the bad ghosts are currently siphoning off Abe, then what's to stop them from reaching into the chest of key living members of the Agency and just stopping their hearts? Unless the ally ghosts are somehow able to stop them. In which case, being dead isn't so much as being a non-corporeal soul as it is being energy on a slightly different wavelength than the physical plane. One wavelength can interact with and counter another, and the greater the wavelength the more ability to interfere with other planes (ours included).

I'm very intrigued to see where the story is going. Either this living/dead physical interaction will be exploited or the rogue ghosts have something in mind which will make it irrelevant, and I'm really having trouble thinking of a way to make the latter viable. Looking forward to it. :rawk:
If you can't live without me, why aren't you dead yet?

I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too.

If God wants all the credit, he's getting all the blame.
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Minivet
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Undead Pixie Wrangler
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Chrysophase2003
Apr 2 2012, 10:04 PM
So a ghost can inflict harm on the living? Scary thought. Is that reliant on the strength of the ghost, like with Franklin too?

Seems like they've got an insurmountable advantage over the living then. Numbers and the ability to hurt the living, but hurting the dead really doesn't do much. Aside from Hope temporarily banishing them for reasons we've yet to learn. I wonder if Abe knows and refuses to tell.

Now I really worry about all the famous serial killers we put to death. Ed Gein must be having a field day. The same for Richard Kuklinski when he finally kicks the bucket.

And if the bad ghosts are currently siphoning off Abe, then what's to stop them from reaching into the chest of key living members of the Agency and just stopping their hearts? Unless the ally ghosts are somehow able to stop them. In which case, being dead isn't so much as being a non-corporeal soul as it is being energy on a slightly different wavelength than the physical plane. One wavelength can interact with and counter another, and the greater the wavelength the more ability to interfere with other planes (ours included).

I'm very intrigued to see where the story is going. Either this living/dead physical interaction will be exploited or the rogue ghosts have something in mind which will make it irrelevant, and I'm really having trouble thinking of a way to make the latter viable. Looking forward to it. :rawk:
Well, Ben and the others have always had the ability to manipulate the physical world (carrying stuff, drinking, etc.). But banishment was described by Ben as pretty broadly effective and not a special ability on Hope's part - "Closing the door against us is easy"; "a little twist of energy and we are pushed away".

While not inconceivable, I don't think such a big conflict is likely, for two reasons. First, in-universe, the ghosts are all people who cared about the direction of the country, or had some other similar attachment (like those at the Osage). As such, they're unlikely to include any psychotic killers; they do include malevolent politicians, but due to their attachment to and interest in the course of human events, it seems changing events by sheer force wouldn't really appeal to them - the rogues, for example, are basically just nudging, providing technology to and drawing attention away from their allies; besides, sheer force wouldn't be any good in anything more than the short term, as everyone could quickly learn the art of dismissal. Second, out-of-universe, it's not really thematically consistent with the story as I see it.
Edited by Minivet, Apr 3 2012, 04:47 PM.
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Chrysophase2003
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Jealous Reader, Unpublished Writer
Quote:
 
First, in-universe, the ghosts are all people who cared about the direction of the country, or had some other similar attachment (like those at the Osage). As such, they're unlikely to include any psychotic killers, just malevolent politicians, who are unlikely to want to change events by sheer force - even the rogues are basically just nudging, providing technology to and drawing attention away from their allies; besides, sheer force wouldn't be any good in anything more than the short term, as everyone could quickly learn the art of dismissal. Second, out-of-universe, it's not really thematically consistent with the story as I see it.


Thematically, you have a point. Otter seems to prefer a careful game of chess in which one side tries to outthink the other, whereas my solution to most problems is to organize the pawns into a horde, rush the board, and set fire to the rooks. :D

But, unless I've forgotten something (and with the size of this story, it's quite easy to forget details) we still don't know entirely what it is the rogue ghosts hope to achieve. Thus far, Clarice has kind of stolen the show, but that still doesn't change the fact that the rogue ghosts are attempting to enforce some as yet undefined ideology and instigate widespread change in the physical world. To my mind, they are radicals whereas the Founding Fathers are guardians of the status quo, for whatever good or ill that would mean. But what we DO know is that the rogue ghosts were willing to leak extremely powerful technology to a third-party developer (whose identity is still also unknown, as is the fate of the senator responsible for starting and funding the Agent program), effectively giving the developers and government carte blanche to do with it what they wished. Remember, Pat is the third generation of the chip. God knows how many people were operated on while someone in power knew full well they would die terribly. We're talking empty beds and mass graves violation of human rights here.

Sometimes a sociopath isn't nearly as scary as the bureaucrat or politician who believes his actions are justified because what he's doing or allowing to occur is righteous. That's kind of the theme of the entire story, what with Hope being put on a watch list and hounded simply because somebody in the government thinks sacrificing an individual's right to privacy is acceptable in the name of an illusory sense of security. In that respect, while I believe the rogue ghosts prefer to work through proxies for the sake of deniability (because there are some habits of bureaucrats that just won't die), if they truly think what they're doing is right, there are no lengths to which they won't go.

Ooh. I just gave myself chills. >:)
If you can't live without me, why aren't you dead yet?

I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too.

If God wants all the credit, he's getting all the blame.
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