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More from On The Media; Lots of things to debate
Topic Started: Sep 1 2009, 07:28 AM (262 Views)
HiFranc	Sep 1 2009, 07:28 AM Post #1
Super Member Posts: 132 Group: Members Member #95 Joined: January 16, 2008	I'm still half way through a podcast of this week's On The Media but there's so much to debate. The articles were: Topical articles: Is the US military only allowing journalists who report them in a positive (or neutral) light into Iraq or Afghanistan? Is reporting on the effectiveness of torture playing into the hands of Dick Cheney by not reporting the legal/ethical concerns? Perpetual discussions: Is undercover reporting wrong or right? {edit} Also one journalist's story about what it was like to work undercover was interesting. There's more but those are the most important ones. Edited by HiFranc, Sep 1 2009, 07:52 AM.
	Francisco, Likes webcomics, current affairs, films, books and reviewing (on Amazon.co.uk).


Requia	Sep 1 2009, 02:05 PM Post #2
Newbie Posts: 9 Group: Members Member #197 Joined: September 1, 2009	If anything, there's not enough or strong enough coverage on the effectiveness of torture. The ethics stuff is important, but you won't convince the right of that, and its critical to our ability to fight the war on terror that we stop using these techniques as soon as possible. Not only does it not work, it makes it worse in the long run. Right now we're creating a system where innocents that go into the system, leave as potential terrorists, because we're re-enforcing every negative stereotype about America possible. Not just torture, but a major prison rape problem (both by guards and other inmates), generally shitty conditions, and generally treating Islam as an inferior religion. The opposite is also possible though. Indonesia found it could turn terrorists into allies with little more than acting like decent human beings, and breaking down their negative views of the government over time.



HiFranc	Sep 1 2009, 04:56 PM Post #3
Super Member Posts: 132 Group: Members Member #95 Joined: January 16, 2008	Requia Sep 1 2009, 02:05 PM If anything, there's not enough or strong enough coverage on the effectiveness of torture. The ethics stuff is important, but you won't convince the right of that, and its critical to our ability to fight the war on terror that we stop using these techniques as soon as possible. Not only does it not work, it makes it worse in the long run. Right now we're creating a system where innocents that go into the system, leave as potential terrorists, because we're re-enforcing every negative stereotype about America possible. Not just torture, but a major prison rape problem (both by guards and other inmates), generally shitty conditions, and generally treating Islam as an inferior religion. The opposite is also possible though. Indonesia found it could turn terrorists into allies with little more than acting like decent human beings, and breaking down their negative views of the government over time. This is a tricky one because I can see both sides of the argument: Yes, you're right and the practical case against torture has to be made but we should also make the point that it is morally and legally wrong. The danger that the debate that On The Media raise is that, if we only/mainly concentrate on the practical side, it is very easy to lose sight of basic humanity in the debate.
	Francisco, Likes webcomics, current affairs, films, books and reviewing (on Amazon.co.uk).


Requia	Sep 1 2009, 07:18 PM Post #4
Newbie Posts: 9 Group: Members Member #197 Joined: September 1, 2009	The legal arguments actually drive me more nuts. The right has been able to dictate the argument by talking about the Geneva convention, in reality, torture is illegal, with much more stringent terms, under good old federal law. Which does not recognize jurisdiction as long as US citizens are involved. We actually have enough evidence to start getting convictions just based on the memos saying that waterboarding is ok (you don't even have to prove that that waterboarding took place, just giving permission to do it is enough to earn life without parole via conspiracy law).



yfnsa	Sep 4 2009, 03:46 AM Post #5
Super Member Posts: 151 Group: Members Member #44 Joined: June 21, 2007	HiFranc Sep 1 2009, 07:28 AM I'm still half way through a podcast of this week's On The Media but there's so much to debate. {edit} Also one journalist's story about what it was like to work undercover was interesting. On The Media is da Bomb. Oddly enough I was half way through listening to this week's OTM when I read this post! (on Tuesday (busy week, just getting to reply)). Requia wrote: Quote: Not just torture, but a major prison rape problem (both by guards and other inmates), Ted Conover (one of the undercover journalists mentioned in the OTM segment) talks about prison rape in his book Newjack: Guarding Sing Sing and on OTM he said: Quote: Everyone asks me, why don't you talk about prison rape? Well, believe me, I looked for it everywhere [LAUGHS] I thought I might find it. That�s what everybody wants to know, and that�s what they expect from the movies. I didn't find it. I heard about it occasionally. I, I wrote about that. HiFranc: I have a paperback copy of Newjack: Guarding Sing Sing, would you like it? If so send me a message or email through the members section of the forum. (Yes, I realize where you are) If you've already read it I'll be happy to pass it on to someone else here. It's a great read.
	YFNSA - Your Friendly Neighborhood System Administrator My Lone Ranger Speedy icon is courtesy of Otter.


yfnsa	Sep 4 2009, 05:52 PM Post #6
Super Member Posts: 151 Group: Members Member #44 Joined: June 21, 2007	yfnsa Sep 4 2009, 03:46 AM HiFranc: I have a paperback copy of Newjack: Guarding Sing Sing, would you like it? If so send me a message or email through the members section of the forum. (Yes, I realize where you are) If you've already read it I'll be happy to pass it on to someone else here. It's a great read. HiFranc has graciously declined my offer of the book. Would someone else like it? If so send me a message or email through the members section of the forum.
	YFNSA - Your Friendly Neighborhood System Administrator My Lone Ranger Speedy icon is courtesy of Otter.


Requia	Sep 8 2009, 05:27 AM Post #7
Newbie Posts: 9 Group: Members Member #197 Joined: September 1, 2009	Sing Sing != Guantanamo Bay



HiFranc	Sep 26 2009, 12:35 PM Post #8
Super Member Posts: 132 Group: Members Member #95 Joined: January 16, 2008	Quote: On The Media is da Bomb. Oddly enough I was half way through listening to this week's OTM when I read this post! (on Tuesday (busy week, just getting to reply)). The On The Media podcast is definitely a podcast I would recommend (I haven't heard this week's yet). As there is so much to debate and consider in it, I don't see myself posting much about it any more (otherwise I'll be posting about it virtually every week). Edited by HiFranc, Sep 26 2009, 12:36 PM.
	Francisco, Likes webcomics, current affairs, films, books and reviewing (on Amazon.co.uk).


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